Did Jesus explain how to get saved in the gospels?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Mar 4, 2007.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Jesus said to Nicodemus that you have to be born again, but did Jesus also explain how you get born again? I cannot think of any verse right now where Jesus explained how you get born again. Why?
    Why didn't Jesus directly explain all these things to the jews which Paul later on wrote about?
    And did Jesus require repentance from those which wanted to believe in Him?
    John required the people to repent but did Jesus also do this?

    I'm a bit confused right now. :confused:
     
  2. amity

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    Jesus said "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." 'Wind' (pneuma) is the Holy Spirit, which must change an individual's heart to enable a person to believe. That is being 'born again', and it is the work of the Holy Spirit.

    Ezekiel 11:19 "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"

    Ezekiel 36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."

    Jesus oftentimes did explain, but only some people can understand Him. The point is, there is no instruction book because being born again is not something WE do, it is something GOD does. See this explanation as part of the parable of the sower:

    Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."

    John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
     
    #2 amity, Mar 4, 2007
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  3. amity

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    Jesus on repentance:

    Matthew 4:17
    From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    Matthew 9:13
    But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    Matthew 11:20, 21
    Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    Matthew 12:41
    The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

    Matthew 21:32
    For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

    Mark 2:17
    When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    Luke 3:3
    And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

    Luke 3:8
    Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    Luke 5:32
    I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    Luke 10:13
    Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

    Luke 11:32
    The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

    Luke 13:3, repeated in verse 5
    I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    Luke 15:7
    I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

    Luke 15:10
    Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

    Luke 17:3, 4
    Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

    Luke 24:47
    And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    More on being born again:
    John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
    #3 amity, Mar 4, 2007
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  4. johnk48

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    Why are you trying to separate what Jesus said in one part of His Word from what He said in other parts of His Word? Every "jot and tittle" is the "mind of Christ," and equally His Word. His Word clearly explains salvation and what being born again is in books like Romans. Why not just rest in His Truth no matter where in His Word it is found?
     
  5. amity

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    You probably don't own a red letter edition!

    Why do you suppose God put some words into the mouths of Paul or Luke, and some said Himself while He was on earth? To me the original post asks a valid question.
     
  6. xdisciplex

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    Hi!

    But did say Jesus somewhere that explicitly we are saved by faith? Or does only Paul later on say this?
    The stuff which Jesus said about following him and taking up your cross could easily be misunderstood in a way that we are saved by works and following Jesus but following Jesus is not what saves us.
    This is why I'm asking. Only from reading the gospels does it become clear what saves us? If a person only had the gospels and nothing else could it also have a correct theology or are the letters of Paul necessary to really understand how to get saved? But if you cannot know how to get saved without Paul's letters then why didn't Jesus already mention all these important details?
    Was it because when Jesus preached the old covenant was still in action? Does this mean that since Jesus preached under the old covenant that his teachings are not relevant for christians anymore because now we have the new covenant and this would mean that the only thing important for christians are the letters from Paul and the others.
     
  7. amity

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    I don't think Paul says that exactly, either (saved by GRACE through faith). When Jesus speaks of faith, it is generally as something that saves us in the here and now. I am great at word searches and copying and pasting scripture:


    Matthew 6:30
    Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

    Matthew 8:10
    When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

    Matthew 8:26
    And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

    Matthew 9:2
    And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

    Matthew 9:22
    But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

    Matthew 9:29
    Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

    Matthew 14:31
    And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

    Matthew 15:28
    Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

    Matthew 16:8
    Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

    Matthew 17:17
    Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

    Matthew 17:20
    And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

    Matthew 21:21
    Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

    Matthew 23:23
    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    Matthew 24:45
    Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

    Matthew 25:21
    His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    Matthew 25:23
    His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    Mark 2:5
    When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

    Mark 4:40
    And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

    Mark 5:34
    And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

    Mark 9:19
    He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

    Mark 10:52
    And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

    Mark 11:22
    And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

    Luke 5:20
    And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

    Luke 7:9
    When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

    Luke 7:50
    And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

    Luke 8:25
    And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.

    Luke 8:48
    And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

    Luke 9:41
    And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither.

    Luke 12:28
    If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

    Luke 12:42
    And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

    Luke 16:10
    He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

    Luke 16:11
    If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

    Luke 16:12
    And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

    Luke 17:5
    And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

    Luke 17:6
    And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

    Luke 17:19
    And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

    Luke 18:8
    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

    Luke 18:42
    And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

    Luke 19:17
    And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

    Luke 22:32
    But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

    John 20:27
    Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
     
  8. amity

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    If I understand it right, John the baptist was the last of the OT prophets. Once Jesus began His ministry, at His baptism, the "kingdom of heaven is at hand" (said by both John the baptist and by Christ (Matthew 3:2 and 4:14). And yes, of course Christ's teachings are central. Paul also was writing under inspiration. There is no conflict (except sometimes in our flawed understanding, of course!).

    And I don't think we CAN know how to get saved! Only God can save. Isn't that the meaning of "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth"?
     
    #8 amity, Mar 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2007
  9. DQuixote

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    xdx, pray, thank God for who he is, ask him to open your eyes and ears, then read the Gospel according to Mark. If you mark up your bible, mark it up. Read every cross-reference and footnote. Take notes as you read. Lots of notes. Tie notes together through a system that you create. Don't chase rabbits. Don't debate the text. Breathe it in. Be methodical, not frenzied in your approach. Do that*, please, before you ask anymore questions on the BB. We should see you back here in 2 or 3 weeks.

    As Jesus himself pointed out, his ministry was to the Jews. The Kingdom they were promised was "at hand" -- available -- right then and there, if they would accept him as their Messiah. The message, clearly, was salvation into the Kingdom that he had prepared for them, not one-by-one, but as a people, God's chosen, en masse, had they believed that he was who he said he was. They didn't. But, sort of like Noah and the Ark, a few were anointed to continue his message - Peter, James, John, among others.

    At that point the message of salvation by grace through faith for each of us, individually, went out to the church, as it was established through the teachings of Paul, beginning in Acts 9. *After you have completed your study of Mark, flip over to Acts 9 and read the rest of the Book of Acts.

    If you will do this prayerfully, without shortcuts, a brighter picture of your standing before Christ will emerge. You'll grow closer and closer and closer to that day when your interpretation of scripture is spiritual, provided by the Holy Spirit, not your brain. You'll shake off the irresponsible arguments of some as you grow in spiritual knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. My prayer is that you will graduate from your study with a doctorate in spiritual peace! Be blessed!
     
  10. amity

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    While I certainly agree with your advice to study the Bible, I think that is what we are trying to do here! A word study on faith is perfectly legitimate. I don't necessarily agree with your entire interpretation, though!

    I am curious as to why you recommend beginning with Mark?
     
  11. DQuixote

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    Amity.............

    Matthew was written to the Jews to answer their questions about this Jesus, who claimed to be their Messiah.

    Mark was written to Gentiles, particularly the Romans. It "reads" faster than Matthew or Luke.

    Luke was written to the Greeks, through one of their own, Theopolis.
     
  12. amity

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    I thought you were going to cite "Markian primacy."

    I would say your reason for recommending Mark first is a good one, but I still hope the discussion continues!
     
  13. Eliyahu

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    XDX,

    Often I noticed that you raise a very good question, then don't listen to the answers or to the comments or to the explanations.
    Hope you pay good attention this time.

    Try to read Mt 7:7-8.

    7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

    You have to wrestle with God until you get the answer from Him.

    He will guide you to realize spiritually that your problems were already solved at the Cross.
    The voice that God tells you will be unforgettable for your life time.
    Human voice can be forgotten immediately, but the Words of God will not be forgotten, and will remain as a fountain in your heart.

    Read Romans 3,4,5,6 and Galatians 2,3, Gospel John 3,5 whole-heartedly.
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    But the way of salvation is following Jesus. That's the gospel call.

    We are saved because, by faith, we leave our old life behind and enter into Christ's way of living.

    The word "gospel" means "good news" and were some of the only Christian writings specifically written to those who were not believers. Every other book in the New Testament, besides the four Gospels and the book of Acts, was written to those who were already of the faith and therefore assumes that we are already familiar with the gospel as presented by Jesus. (Of course, today, Baptists tend to ignore what Jesus taught and focus on Paul's writings without considering the message of Jesus that Paul assumed his audience was already familiar with.)

    We are saved by grace through faith by following Christ.

    Many will object to the statement above because it implies effort. But grace is not opposed to effort... it is opposed to earning.

    We do not earn our right standing before God, but Jesus calls us to strive to enter the narrow gate (Luke 13:23-24; Matthew 7:13-14).
     
  15. billwald

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    If the Church admitted that repentence was sufficient then the Church couldn't command, control, and tax the people.
     
  16. Amy.G

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    ..........huh?????
     
  17. DQuixote

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    (I think that it is a Catholic thing, Amy......)

    :laugh:
     
  18. Amy.G

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    Ok. [​IMG]<-----me trying to understand Catholicism.
     
  19. webdog

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    This will be the next step :BangHead:
     
  20. EdSutton

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    Because it's the shortest gospel, maybe?? :smilewinkgrin:

    Ed
     

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