Did Jesus Go To Hell?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by RedemptionAddiction, May 11, 2006.

  1. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello, I just wrote an article. And it’s very important to me that it be biblically accurate so I wanted everyone to take a look at it and let me know if I made a mistake in anything I said. I realize any discussion has multiple angles you could go from but in this case, all I want to know is if I said something that was not supported with scripture.

    Below are a few things I found to be helpful when offering correction

    1. Please steer clear of personal remarks. Saying things like, “You’re deceived.” Or, “You’re a false teacher.” Won’t accomplish anything. There are various forms of these comments, but they’re easily spotted because they’re always addressed toward the person, rather than the subject at hand.

    2. Please be specific. “You interpreted that wrong.” Or “You have a flawed reasoning here.” Are examples of vague generalities. If you say things like this, but don’t give an example, there is no way for me to tell what you’re referring to-thus how will I correct it? The best way I have seen to do is this is to quote what I said and then show how I was wrong.

    3. I’m interested in being able to read it in my own Bible. I understand people can say, “What it means here is . . .” Or “What is being implied by the context is . . .” But these explanations requires me to put faith in what you say about it rather than what it says by itself. So instead, I prefer to read it straight from the Bible.

    4. PLEASE BE HONEST- If you don’t know, just say, “I don’t know.” If all you have is an opinion on it, just say “I could only give you my opinion, but I don’t have any scripture that actually say this . . .” That way I at least know where you’re coming from. And I won’t be left wondering if you had a real point to make, or if you were just giving your opinion.


    Let me thank everyone for their participation ahead of time. I really do appreciate it.

    -------------------------------------------


    In Acts 2:31 we get a distinct picture of where Jesus’ Soul was . . .

    25: For David speaks concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    27: Because you will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption.
    28: You have made known to me the ways of life; you shall make me full of joy with your countenance.
    29: Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    31: He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    Now, in this passage, Peter is speaking concerning the resurrection of Christ, but makes a striking statement about where Jesus’ Soul was until He had been risen from the dead. It was in hell. Consequently, as Peter points out, it was not left there, but we will talk more about this aspect later on. What I want you to see is where Jesus was for those 3 days and 3 nights.


    Now I want to be specific about where Jesus went. Some translations will say Hades instead of Hell. Which is fine. But if we can find an actual biblical description of Hell, or Hades, we can better understand where it was that Jesus went. We find this description from the lips of Jesus Himself.

    19: There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
    20: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    21: And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22: And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    23: And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    24: And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    (Lk 16)

    Here we have a description of Hell. Verse 23 shows us that the rich man went to hell. He was tormented by flames. The word, Hell that is used in this story is the same Greek word that is used in Acts 2:31 in reference to where Christ went. This means that our Lord went to the place of torment and flames.
     
  2. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    The greek word for the realm of the dead, both good and bad, was hades. The word hades therefore did not signify flames and punishment; it signified being dead and where dead people go. The mythology of the greeks applied the word also for the final destination of those whom the gods had favored, they would be able to live happily in the "Elysian Fields" forever.

    This background for the word "hades" cannot be ignored as we interpret the passage. We cannot therefore conclude that Jesus' soul went to a place of torment! Instead, the comunication is that He truly died and He went into the true state of being dead.

    More than saying that is speculation without foundation with which to speculate.

    All we can conclude from Jesus words about the rich man in the realm of the dead is that he was judged and found worthy of punishment. The realm in which dead people are is larger than that, it also contains people who are blessed forever.

    There is a tradition of men that Jesus went to the good part of hades and rescued the old testament saints from there and took them off to heaven.

    Like most man-made traditions, it lacks supporting evidence. We cannot pin down the word "hades" and say, conclusively, it does not include "heaven" . . . . we are forced to acknowledge our ignorance and inability to know about the particulars of our habitat after death except in the most abstract of terms. We know we will be "blessed" but we don't know exactly what that will mean until we get there.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    In Acts 2 the word is Hades "The place of the dead". It references ALL the dead including King David as we see in Acts 2!

    In Matt 10 we see a different term - this is "fiery Ghenna". And there is where "Both Body AND SOUL are DESTROYED".

    We know that Christ's body was NOT destroyed. So we know that His soul was not destroyed!

    He did not go to hell that is -- "fiery ghenna".

    But HE DID suffer the second death in our place!

    We all suffer the first death.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    But I have to give you your point from Luke 16 - there HADES is the place of torment for the lost and NOT the saved of the OT.

    So either David was lost or this is a parable!

    BTW - in Luke 16 all the saints go to sit in Abraham's lap and he is in charge of the saints. He alone is sovereign - there is no appeal to a higher power in Luke 16's parable.

    The Luke 16 parable is the ONLY place in all of scripture for arguing HADES as the place of torment for the wicked.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. mman

    mman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    A more accurate statement would be "Here we have a discription of Hades". From the story in Luke, we can see that the place was divided, one was filled with comfort and the other with torment.

    Did Jesus go to Hades? Absolutely. Which side? The side with comfort or the side with torment?

    Jesus answers this question when talking to the thief on the cross, "And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:43

    Therefore, there is no question that when Jesus went into the Hadean realm, He was in paradise, not torment. If Jesus had gone into torment, that would violate what He said in Luke 23:43.

    I do like the way you think and your approach to scripture [​IMG]
     
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    As I read the following Scriptures I find that Hell is a place of confinement such as the grave also. Jesus commended His Spirit back unto the Father so it had to be a time when Jesus was confined where both soul and body were present. The soul was not present in the grave for it had already left the body and on the third day He arose therefore no corruption of the body. As far as the soul being in hell I have always believe it was "when Jesus was confined to the cross" and as Jonah cried out of the belly of hell the Lord cried from the cross "Father why hath thou forsaken me?" That is what I believe for He had no reason to go where the rich man is today. Just my belief on the matter. And I do not believe that Hell has 2 parts, I believe the poor man's soul went to Abraham's bossum which is a type and figure of God Himself (which is in Heaven and at rest waiting on the resurrection.

    Jonah, chapter 2
    "2": And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.


    Acts, chapter 2
    "27": Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Luke, chapter 16
    "23": And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
     
  7. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


    no i dont believe Jesus went to hell.

    there is no middle ground - there is heaven and there is hell.

    there is no place where the dead reside and wait for judgment.
     
  8. Jacob Dahlen

    Jacob Dahlen
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Hades" is used in the LXX to translate the Hebrew "Sheol" - it simply means "the abode of the dead" with no real connotations of heaven or hell; the Jews had a rather vague concept of the afterlife, if they had one at all. From an article written by me a few years ago:

     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Brother Bob always has a well-thought out insightful Bible answer. Nice going Brother Bob!

    You are right - the suffering Christ endured was while in the Garden suffering and losing great drops of blood as well as during the trial and on the cross. Suffering "as our substitute" UNTIL He said "IT IS FINISHED" and died!

    At that moment it REALLY WAS finished!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paul of Eugene:

    The greek word for the realm of the dead, both good and bad, was hades.

    RA:
    What do you mean both good and bad? Where does the Bible talk about Hades as a good place?

    Paul:
    We cannot therefore conclude that Jesus' soul went to a place of torment! Instead, the comunication is that He truly died and He went into the true state of being dead.

    RA:
    Well, like I say in the article, Jesus described Hades as a place of torment and flames in Luke 16


    Paul
    All we can conclude from Jesus words about the rich man in the realm of the dead is that he was judged and found worthy of punishment.

    RA:
    Well, I don't want to conclude anything that the Bible doesn't say. But one thing we know the Bible does say is that the rich man went to Hades, and the Bible says in Hades, he was tormented by flames. Then this same word is used in Acts 2 in reference to where Jesus went. So according to Jesus' own Word, He went to a place where there was torment and flames.

    Paul:
    The realm in which dead people are is larger than that, it also contains people who are blessed forever.

    RA:
    I can only tell you what the Bible says about it. And that's what I posted above.


    Paul
    We cannot pin down the word "hades" and say, conclusively, it does not include "heaven" . . . .

    RA:
    You're right. Like I said above, I can only say what the Bible says about it. It's a place of torment and flames (Luke 16).
     
  12. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob:
    In Acts 2 the word is Hades "The place of the dead". It references ALL the dead including King David as we see in Acts 2!

    RA:

    I would not argue this . . . But Jesus still describes it as a place of flames and torment (Luke 16).


    Bob:
    In Matt 10 we see a different term - this is "fiery Ghenna". And there is where "Both Body AND SOUL are DESTROYED".

    We know that Christ's body was NOT destroyed. So we know that His soul was not destroyed!

    RA:
    I would not argue this either.

    Bob:
    He did not go to hell that is -- "fiery ghenna".

    RA:
    We can say this for sure-He went to Hades, and He himself described it as a place of torment and flames.
     
  13. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob:
    But I have to give you your point from Luke 16 - there HADES is the place of torment for the lost and NOT the saved of the OT.

    RA:
    Where does the Bible say this?

    BOB:
    So either David was lost or this is a parable!


    RA:
    Where does Acts 2 say that David went to Hades?

    BOB:
    BTW - in Luke 16 all the saints go to sit in Abraham's lap and he is in charge of the saints. He alone is sovereign - there is no appeal to a higher power in Luke 16's parable.

    The Luke 16 parable is the ONLY place in all of scripture for arguing HADES as the place of torment for the wicked.

    RA:
    Hmmm. What stops me from concluding for sure that it was a parable is the fact that Jesus didn't say it was. So I would be assuming if I were to conclude that.
     
  14. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mman:
    A more accurate statement would be "Here we have a discription of Hades". From the story in Luke, we can see that the place was divided, one was filled with comfort and the other with torment.

    RA:
    The thing is, I've heard of what you're saying, but Luke 16 does not say hell or hades we divided. People assume it because the rich man could see Lazarus from where he was . . . But I can also see inside my neighbors house from standing out on the street . . . That doesn't mean I'm in their house with them. It just means that from where I am, I can see where they are.

    Mman:
    Did Jesus go to Hades? Absolutely. Which side? The side with comfort or the side with torment?

    RA:
    Well, again this is based on the assumption that it was split up.

    Mman
    Jesus answers this question when talking to the thief on the cross, "And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:43

    Therefore, there is no question that when Jesus went into the Hadean realm, He was in paradise, not torment. If Jesus had gone into torment, that would violate what He said in Luke 23:43.

    I do like the way you think and your approach to scripture

    RA:
    Well thank you for the compliment. Luke 23 would not violate Jesus going into the place of torment because God can be in two places at once. Sorta like how Jesus was praying to His Father while He was on earth.
     
  15. nate

    nate
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you Matt that was an interesting read.
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The focus and contrast between the tomb of David and the tomb of Christ is obvious - just as we see how Peter uses that fact to point to Christ's resurrection.
    The point made about the grave is in reference to death and the tomb - not to fiery hell. Peter's point is that while David is still there - Christ is not so the
    text of Psalms he is quoting is to be applied to Christ.

    “The Place” is called HADES the place where one “undergoes decay” The argument is that while both David and Christ go there – only Christ comes out without undergoing decay.


     
  17. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hell No!

    Sorry, couldn't help myself.

    Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Jesus EXPERIENCED hell. Said He, "The Son of man shaal be IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH" -- that is, hell -- cf. Jonah.

    Part was LIVE experience, for one day and one night of the "three days and three nights according to the prophet". Reformed theology has always understood this from Jesus' Gethsemane to his last 'Cross-word' before He "gave the spirit".

    The rest of jesus hell-experience, we humans cannot fathom a thing, and it will always stay pure speculation if we attempt to explain it. But the Scripture that says he was released from the pangs of death makes it abundantly clear that jesus' resurrection spelled the last moment of His hell-experience.
     
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    The focus and contrast between the tomb of David and the tomb of Christ is obvious - just as we see how Peter uses that fact to point to Christ's resurrection.
    The point made about the grave is in reference to death and the tomb - not to fiery hell. Peter's point is that while David is still there - Christ is not so the
    text of Psalms he is quoting is to be applied to Christ.

    “The Place” is called HADES the place where one “undergoes decay” The argument is that while both David and Christ go there – only Christ comes out without undergoing decay.


    </font>[/QUOTE]Bobryan,
    How beautiful is it when brothers live together.
    Thank you, this is consoling and inspiring of you.
    Thanks a lot.
     
  20. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well . . . . Like I said originally . . . Jesus described hell in Luke. This is the same word used in Acts 2 . . .

    I know people can say all sorts of things about it . . . But if you're staying with what it says . . . The Bible says Jesus went to a place where Jesus himself described as flames and torment
     

Share This Page

Loading...