Did Jesus know

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 11, 2005.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    who he was when he was a baby? Or did he have what I have heard some liberal theologians refer to as progressive revelation about who he was and why he was there?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Did Jesus need to learn to talk? Did He need to be potty trained? Did He need to learn to crawl, toddle and walk?

    By His bar mitzvah He amazed the temple elite with his knowledge and insight. Was this just intuitive, reflecting omniscience?

    I believe the kenosis was such that Jesus gave up the voluntary use of His attributes. He would always know He was God, but not always free to use divine powers.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    When you say that Jesus gave up the voluntary use of his divine attributes, would you include his omniscience with that...and if so, how would he know who he was as a newborn baby?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    That I'm not sure of. His attributes WOULD include all of them (including the "omni's") and so only in line with the Spirit of God/will of God would Jesus use them.

    Is His "self-knowledge" an attribute? I don't think so. Did He as a spewing brephos KNOW He was God the Son? That is different from omniscience in my thinking.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Please correct me if I am wrong, but by definition, Omniscient means he knows everything. Would that not include knowing who he was and what his prupose was?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Yes, but not the opposite. He could know who HE was (God the Son incarnate) and NOT know every other fact in the universe.
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

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    How could one, by definition, be all knowing, and at the same time, not know everything? That sounds like a contradiction to me.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. HankD

    HankD
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    Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

    Surely in God is all wisdom.

    Yet Jesus increased in wisdom in the context of being a 12 year old boy.

    If He increased in wisdom then the normal exegesis of this passage would mean that there was a point in time that He had more wisdom than He had previously.

    So yes as God, He was always omniscient but at the same time (as a boy) He grew in wisdom unless the Scripture is wrong here in Luke 2:52 or it means something other than what it says.

    HankD
     
  9. billreber

    billreber
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    This poor uneducated Baptist boy thinks God (in ANY form) has the ability to FORGET. Therefore, Jesus must have been able to choose to forget much of His "knowledge" and "wisdom" as a baby, therefore being able to "grow in wisdom" as is recorded in Luke.

    Did He know Who He was as a baby? Probably. Did He know everything else? Only God knows!

    Bill [​IMG] :D
     
  10. Hardsheller

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    I believe he cried and messed up the swaddling cloth.

    I can't imagine him lying in the manger and knowing that he was God incarnate and pondering all the ramifications of His divinity, for the Bible says he was made like us in every way.

    The only difference I can tell is that he never sinned and we always do.
     
  11. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Some of our conceptions of Jesus tend to border on docetism! Philippians 2:6-8 and Hebrews 2:9&16 speak of a Jesus who emptied Himself and became one of us.

    I agree with Dr. Bob that He likely set aside many of His divine powers to really become one of us. How much of an ordeal would it have been for Him to simply whizz through life never questioning, never hurting, never wondering? That would not have been a human Jesus. How could He REALLY have borne our griefs and sorrows if He could not experience them in the fullness of humanity?
     
  12. DavidsonBap

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    Perhaps an example could be a star soccer player hosting a disability game. In the game he intentionally uses one leg only to kick the ball even though he is capable of using both. He wants to experience what the others do.
     
  13. Artimaeus

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    I don't think so. I think that He set the whole thing up so that He would experience humanity to convince us that He, indeed, knew what it was like to be a man. He already knew, of course, but this was to make it so that even we could understand. I think that everything He knew, He learned through His humanity or it was revealed to Him by the Father as the Father has revealed things to various other Prophets, Jesus being the greatest. From His conception till His resurrection, all things were done as a man COULD who was totally submitted to the Father and following His will. He wasn't showing off His awesome power, He was giving us an example to follow. If it required being Diety to perform then it would require us being Deity to follow.

    He knew the future...so did Daniel.
    He raised the dead...so did Peter.
    He performed miracles...so did Elijah.

    Since it is characterized as a "liberal" theology, I doubt that I agree with their definition and especially their ramifications of the term but there was certainly something progressive about growing in wisdom.
     
  14. Helen

    Helen
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    er...why don't we ask Him later?
     
  15. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Because some of us are said to be just too liberal to make it to that point, so we have to ask NOW! [​IMG]
     
  16. JohnB

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    Most of this is speculation. The Bible just is not clear on this issue.

    By 12, Jesus seemed to know who he was.
    He knew the thoughts of others.
    He could "see" what people were doing when He wasn't there.
    He knew the future.
    But, did He perform miracles by His deity power, or by faith in God's power?

    Here's another brain twister. I understand that we assume Jesus is omniscient.
    But he himself said that only the Father knows the hour of his return.

    How could Jesus and the HS, as part of the Godhead, not be privy to what the Father knows?

    :confused:
     
  17. tenor

    tenor
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    I can somwhat agree with your first statement, but where do theothers come from?

    Luke 2 and Matthew 2 are the only places that mention his childhood - I don't see these there at all.

    Actually, I agree with Helen - "Let's ask Him when we get to heaven."
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv
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    As a baby? Not a clue. But as a human, Jesus would have been subject to human limitations to one extent or another. Which means he would have had to learn things like reading, math, how to tie his shoes, etc. He would have gotten hungry if he didn't eat, would have gotten a cold if he didn't wear long johns on cold nights, etc. As for his divine identity, it's sheer speculation, and, aside from casual conversation, is irrelevant to Christian doctrine.
     
  19. Artimaeus

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    I thought that was the motto of the BB??? [​IMG]
     
  20. Benjamin

    Benjamin
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    I thought that was the motto of the BB??? [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe best swept under the rug? :rolleyes: [​IMG]
     

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