Did KJV update pre-1611 Bibles?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Logos1560, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    Perhaps in an effort to argue that the KJV should not be updated at least KJV-only author claims that the KJV did not update [except rarely] the language of the earlier pre-1611 English Bibles of which it was a revision.

    Gail Riplinger claimed that “only rarely does the KJV change an ‘archaic phrase’” in the earlier English Bibles (In Awe of Thy Word, p. 136). Riplinger wrote: “This author’s word-for-word collation of earlier English Bibles shows that the few changes the KJV made were not done to update an evolving English language or to represent the language of that day” (p. 17). Riplinger again referred to her “word-for-word comparison of the actual scriptures of Tyndale, Coverdale, Rogers, and the Great Bible” (p. 37). Riplinger asserted: “We cannot assume, as most have, who have not actually collated them word-for-word, that the language of the KJV reflects updating of the language of the Bishops’ and earlier Bibles” (p. 136). Riplinger asserted that “the words that differ in the early English Bibles are pure synonyms” (p. 859).

    Gail Riplinger claimed: “The evidence proves that the Bishops’ and earlier Bibles had a pedestrian, that is, a very easy and common vocabulary. They actually had a simpler vocabulary than the KJV” (In Awe, p. 136). Riplinger wrote: “The Bishops’ Bible, like all of the early English Bibles, was truly an easy reading Bible” (p. 527). Riplinger asserted: “Earlier English Bibles were written in a simpler language” (p. 17).

    Does the evidence prove or confirm Riplinger's claims?




     
  2. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    Since the KJV was officially a revision of the Bishops' Bible, here is some evidence from the book of Genesis that lists words/phrases from the 1568 edition of the Bishops' Bible compared to the words from the KJV.

    Gen. 2:10 And out of Eden there went forth a flood to water the garden (Bishops’) And a river went out of Eden to water the garden (KJV)
    Gen. 3:4 ye shall not die the death (Bishops) Ye shall not surely die (KJV)
    Gen. 4:3 an oblation (Bishops) an offering (KJV)
    Gen. 4:4 to his oblation (Bishops) to his offering (KJV)
    Gen. 4:5 Cain was exceeding wroth (Bishops) Cain was very wroth (KJV)
    Gen. 4:5 his countenaunce abated (Bishops) his countenance fell (KJV)
    Gen. 4:9 Which said I wot not (Bishops) And he said, I know not (KJV)
    Gen. 4:26 make invocation in the name (Bishops) call upon the name (KJV)
    Gen. 6:5 malice of man (Bishops) wickedness of man (KJV)
    Gen. 6:14 pine trees: habitations (Bishops) gopher wood; rooms (KJV)
    Gen. 7:18 waters also waxed strong (Bishops) waters prevailed (KJV)
    Gen. 9:7 breed in the earth (Bishops) bring forth abundantly in the earth (KJV)
    Gen. 12:20 they convayed him forth (Bishops) they sent him away (KJV)
    Gen. 13:1 And so Abram gat him up (Bishops) And Abram went up (KJV)
    Gen. 16:2 I may be builded by her (Bishops) I may obtain children by her (KJV)
    Gen. 18:6 went apace (Bishops) hastened (KJV)
    Gen. 18:14 unpossible (Bishops) too hard (KJV)
    Gen. 18:22 went to Sodomeward (Bishops) went toward Sodom (KJV)
    Gen. 19:15 angels caused Lot to speed him (Bishops) angels hastened Lot (KJV)
    Gen. 20:2 fet Sara away (Bishops) took Sarah (KJV)
    Gen. 20:6 I wote well that thou diddest it in the singleness of thy heart (Bishops)
    I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart (KJV)
    Gen. 20:8 betimes (Bishops) early (KJV)
    Gen. 23:3 Abraham stood up fro the sight of his corpse (Bishops)
    Abraham stood up from before his dead (KJV)
    Gen. 24:15 ere he had left speaking (Bishops) before he had done speaking (KJV)
    Gen. 24:32 he unharnessed the camels and brought litter and provender (Bishops) he ungirded his camels and gave straw and provender (KJV)
    Gen. 25:8 Abraham waxing away, died in a lusty age (Bishops)
    Abraham gave up the ghost and died in a good old age (KJV)
    Gen. 26:1 there fell a famine (Bishops) there was a famine (KJV)
    Gen. 27:1 Isahac waxed old (Bishops) Isaac was old (KJV)
    Gen. 27:7 dainty meat (Bishops) savoury meat (KJV)
    Gen. 27:7 afore my death (Bishops) before my death (KJV)
    Gen. 27:15 Rebecca fet (Bishops) Rebekah took (KJV)
    Gen. 27:44 fierceness be swaged (Bishops) fury turn away (KJV)
    Gen. 29:28 passed out the week (Bishops) fulfilled her week (KJV)
    Gen. 31:18 substance which he had procured (Bishops) goods which he had gotten (KJV)
    Gen. 31:36 doest sore pursue after me (Bishops) hast so hotly pursued after me (KJV)
    Gen. 32:7 wist not which way to turn him self (Bishops) distressed (KJV)
    Gen. 33:6 did their obeisance (Bishops) bowed themselves (KJV)
    Gen. 35:29 Isahac decayed away (Bishops) Isaac gave up the ghost (KJV)
    Gen. 37:21 he rid him out (Bishops) he delivered him out (KJV)
    Gen. 37:26 keep his blood secret (Bishops) conceal his blood (KJV)
    Gen. 38:1 gat him to a (Bishops) turned in to a (KJV)
    Gen. 38:19 And she gat her up (Bishops) And she arose (KJV)
    Gen. 39:2 he became a lucky man (Bishops) he was a prosperous man (KJV)
    Gen. 40:15 I was privily by stealth taken away (Bishops) I was stolen away (KJV)
    Gen. 42:1 why gape ye one upon another (Bishops) why do ye look one upon another (KJV)
    Gen. 42:10 buy victual (Bishops) buy food (KJV)
    Gen. 43:14 thus I am as one that is quite robbed of his children (Bishops)
    If I be bereaved of my children, I am bereaved (KJV)
    Gen. 44:28 of a surety (Bishops) surely (KJV)
    Gen. 45:1 cause every man to avoid (Bishops) cause every man to go out from me (KJV)
    Gen. 45:21 victual also to spend by the way (Bishops) provision for the way (KJV)
    Gen. 47:13 the dearth was exceeding sore (Bishops) the famine was very sore (KJV)
    Gen. 48:22 which I gat out of the hand (Bishops) which I took out of the hand (KJV)
     
  3. EdSutton

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    Looks like quite a few :rarelys", to me! I wonder how many would be found in all 66 books? :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
  4. EdSutton

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    No doubt, Dr. Riplinger is 'maybe' a veternarian, so I have only two questions.

    [​IMG]

    Has the vet fixed the horse yet, as he (or she) works on him with this special "horse tool"?

    Uh', Oh wait! While Dr. Gail Riplinger has multiple graduate degrees, as well as further additional post-graduate studies at two leading universities, and a Doctorate awarded by a Christian College, they are not in Veterinary Science, so the second question should be -

    Or is the vet practicing without a license? :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
    #4 EdSutton, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2007
  5. Keith M

    Keith M
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    Maybe it would help if we understood Riplinger's definition of "rarely." Is it fewer than 1000? Fewer than 10,000? Fewer than a million?
     
  6. tinytim

    tinytim
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    As for the thread title... yep the KJV did...
    and I think the KJV did a better job.

    And I laughed at this one...
    Gen. 35:29 Isahac decayed away (Bishops) Isaac gave up the ghost (KJV)

    Why not just say, "Isaac died"?
     
  7. Logos1560

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    I have not done a complete word-for-word collation of all the pre-1611 English Bibles and the KJV, but I have examined them enough to know that Riplinger's statements are misleading at best. Here are some examples from the books of Exodus and Leviticus that indicate that the KJV did update words in the Bishops many times and that the words in the Bishops were not always simpler or easier than the words in the KJV as Riplinger implied.

    Exod. 5:8 minish (Bishops) diminish (KJV)
    Exod. 6:2 I am Jehovah (Bishops) I am the LORD (KJV)
    Exod. 8:18 the enchanters assayed likewise (Bishops) the magicians did so (KJV)
    Exod. 16:20 it waxed full of worms and corrupted (Bishops) it bred worms and stank (KJV)
    Exod. 21:10 minish (Bishops) diminish (KJV)
    Exod. 21:22 days men (Bishops) judges (KJV)
    Exod. 28:17 smaragdus (Bishops) carbuncle (KJV)
    Exod. 29:3 put them in a maund (Bishops) put them into one basket (KJV)
    Exod. 31:10 The vestments to minister in (Bishops) And the cloths of service (KJV)
    Exod. 33:19 the name of Jehovah (Bishops) the name of the LORD (KJV)
    Exod. 35:7 taxus (Bishops) badgers’ (KJV)
    Exod. 35:19 holy vestments (Bishops) holy garments (KJV)
    Exod. 38:3 besomes (Bishops) shovels (KJV)
    Exod. 39:1 vestments of ministration (Bishops) cloths of service (KJV)
    Exod. 39:10 smaragdus (Bishops) carbuncle (KJV)
    Exod. 39:23 midst of the tunicle (Bishops) midst of the robe (KJV)
    Exod. 39:41 ministrying vestments (Bishops) cloths of service (KJV)
    Exod. 40:13 holy vestments (Bishops) holy garments (KJV)
    Lev. 7:23 of beeves (Bishops) of ox (KJV)
    Lev. 7:24 Neverthelater, the fat (Bishops) And the fat (KJV)
    Lev. 11:16 ostrich (Bishops) owl (KJV)
    Lev. 11:18 the back (Bishops) the swan (KJV)
    Lev. 11:22 arb (Bishops) locust (KJV)
    Lev. 11:22 selaam (Bishops) bald locust (KJV)
    Lev. 11:22 hargol (Bishops) beetle (KJV)
    Lev. 11:22 hagab (Bishops) grasshopper (KJV)
    Lev. 11:30 stellio (Bishops) chameleon (KJV)
    Lev. 11:30 lacert (Bishops) lizard (KJV)
    Lev. 16:21 convenient man (Bishops) fit man (KJV)
    Lev. 18:13 discover (Bishops) uncover (KJV)
    Lev. 18:17 discover (Bishops) uncover (KJV)
    Lev. 18:25 Wherethrough (Bishops) And (KJV)
    Lev. 19:10 shalt not dishonest thy vineyard (Bishops) shalt not glean thy vineyard (KJV)
    Lev. 19:32 reverence the face (Bishops) honour the face (KJV)
    Lev. 20:9 diminished the estimation (Bishops) cursed (KJV)
    Lev. 20:10 that breaketh wedlock (Bishops) that committeth adultery (KJV)
    Lev. 21:2 kinsman that is nigh (Bishops) kin that is near (KJV)
     
  8. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    The overall evidence would indicate that it can be accurately said that the KJV did update the pre-1611 English Bibles in many places. The KJV updated several archaic words in the pre-1611 English Bibles even though it may have kept a few similar uses of the same words in other verses.

    In addition, the KJV completely removed some archaic, antiquated, rare, unusual, or difficult words or spellings found in one or more of the pre-1611 English Bibles. This list of words includes words from all the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision and not just the 1568 Bishops' Bible. A list of such words would include the following: “abrech” (Gen. 41:43), “achat” (Exod. 39:12), “advoutry“ (Mark 7:21), “affianced” (Luke 1:27), “afterbirth“ (Deut. 28:57), “albs” (Lev. 8:13), “arb” (Lev. 11:22), “arede” (Mark 14:65), “assoyl” (Matt. 21:24), “beweep“ (Deut. 21:13), “brain pan“ (Jud. 9:53), “breastlap” (Exod. 25:7), “bruterer” (Exod. 25:7), “buballs” (1 Kings 4:23), “buggers” (1 Tim. 1:10), “byss” (Gen. 41:42), “calamite” (Exod. 30:23), “cavillation” (Luke 19:8), “cavillations“ (Lev. 19:13), “chevisance” (Deut. 21:14), “commonalty“ (Lev. 4:13, “consistory“ (Ps. 107:32), “cowcasins“ (Ezek. 4:15), “cratch” (Luke 2:7), “debite” (Luke 20:20), “deedslayers” (2 Kings 14:6), “despicions” (Acts 28:29), “discomforted“ (Ezk. 13:22), “diseasest“ (Mark 5:35), “dissembling“ (Prov. 12:19), “door checks [or cheeks]” (Isa. 6:4), “dukedoms“ (Gen. 36:30), “effusion“ (Heb. 11:28), “egalness” (2 Cor. 8:14), “emmets“ (Prov. 30:25), “endote” (Exod. 22:16), “examinedst“ (Rev. 2:2), “fardels” (Acts 21:15), “field devils“ (2 Chron. 11:15), “flackered“ (Ezek. 10:19), “flacket” (1 Sam. 16:20), “flaggy” (1 Sam. 15:9), “flawnes” (1 Chron. 23:29), “felicity” (Gal. 4:15), “fore elders“ (Prov. 22:28), “frayles” (1 Sam. 25:18), “frumenty” (Lev. 23:14), “gabis“ (Job 28:18), “gaoler” (Acts 16:23), “gardes“ (Deut. 22:12), “ghostly“ (Rom. 8:5), “grece” (Acts 21:35), “hagab” (Lev. 11:22), “harborous” (1 Tim. 3:2), “harbourless” (Matt. 25:35), “hargol” (Lev. 11:22), “heavengazers” (Isa. 47:13), “hoared“ (Josh. 9:4), “hucklebone“ (Gen. 32:25), “huswiferie“ (Prov. 31:18), “Iims“ (Jer. 50:39), “ixion“ (Deut. 14:13), “jakes” (2 Kings 10:27), “lamia“ (Isa. 34:14), “lamies“ (Lam. 4:3), “latten“ (Gen. 31:42), “ligurious“ (Exod. 28:19), “lither“ (Rom. 12:11), “loured” (Gen. 4:5), “lusty bloods“ (2 Sam. 13:28), “maidenhead“ (Jud. 11:38), “male stewes“ (1 Kings 15:12), “manchet” (1 Kings 4:22), “mandragoras” (Gen. 30:14), “maund” (Exod. 29:3), “meinie” (Gen. 22:3), “meked“ (James 3:7), “muzzling” (Deut. 32:2), “moon prophets” (Isa. 47:13), “mossell” (1 Cor. 9:9), “naughtipacks“ (Ps. 86:14), “neverthelater“ (Lev. 7:24), “nigard“ (Isa. 32:6), “nightcrow“ (Lev. 11:16), “overscaped” (Lev. 19:10), “overthwart” (Deut. 32:5), “parbreak” (Num. 11:20), “partlets“ (Acts 19:12), “perceavaunce“ (Eph. 1:8), “perquellies” (2 Sam. 5:8), “pismire” (Prov. 6:6), “plage” (Deut. 17:8), “pleck” (Lev. 13:4), “porphyry” (Est. 1:6), “pyght“ (Heb. 8:2), “querne” (Isa. 47:2), “quier” (1 Kings 6:5), “raynes“ (Rev. 19:8), “rebecks” (1 Sam. 18:6), “redebush” (Isa. 9:16), “redshanke“ (Deut. 14:16), “roomth“ (2 Sam. 22:20), “rugagates” (Jud. 12:4), “sallets” (Jer. 46:4), “scrale” (Exod. 8:3), “seameaw“ (Lev. 11:16), “selaam“ (Lev. 11:22), “sethim” (Deut. 10:3), “shalms“ or “shawms” (Ps. 98:6), “shope” (Gen. 2:7), “simnel” (Exod. 29:23), “slade” (1 Sam. 25:20), “slops” (Isa. 3:20), “smaragdus“ (Exod. 28:17), “Sodomward“ (Gen. 13:22), “soleam” (Lev. 11:22), “springalds“ (Dan. 1:4), “stellio“ (Lev. 11:30), “succourless“ (Prov. 31:8), “taxus” (Exod. 25:4), “terebinths“ (Isa. 6:13), “toot-hill“ (Gen. 31:48), “transitory“ (Prov. 31:8), “treacle” (Jer. 3:22), “tyranny“ (Job 3:17), “tushe“ (Job 39:25), “unghostly“ (1 Tim. 4:7), “unhele” (Lev. 18:16), “unlust“ (Isa. 43:22), “unquiet“ (Deut. 28:65), “unshodhouse“ (Deut. 25:10), “unthrifts“ (1 Sam. 30:22), “untractable“ (Titus 1:6), “uplandish“ (Jud. 5:11), “wastels“ (Lev. 24:5), “wenest” (Acts 8:20), “whale fish” (Job 7:12), “Whitsuntide“ (1 Cor. 16:8), “whore keeper” (Deut. 23:17), and “withoutforth“ (1 Chron. 26:29).

    Are all the above words “simpler vocabulary” than that found in the KJV?
     
  9. robycop3

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    I believe the evidence shows Riplinger's claim to be completely wrong unless her definition of "rarely" is far-different from that found in every common dictionary.

    Calling her a "Dr." is being quite generous, unless she's earned one in interior design. If not, any doctorate she may have mighta come outta a boxa Crackerjax.
     
  10. EdSutton

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    I read somewhere where Dr. Gail Riplinger teaches (or taught) English. And I am a.k.a. Language Cop.

    I once heard that there is no known language where two positive words can be put together to make a negative. In light of the evidence above, I agree with this. So I'll say,

    "Yeah!" Right!" :rolleyes:

    Language Cop
     
    #10 EdSutton, Sep 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2007
  11. Keith M

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    Maybe someone should put together a Gail Riplinger Dictionary. It would sure be different than the Webster, the Cambridge and tha American heritage dictionaries.

    Not fair! Maybe she's a doctor as defined in the Gail Riplinger Dictionary! OTOH, maybe her doctorate came from one of those quarter vending thingies you see at Walmart - you know, the ones where kids buy toys for a quarter. It probably came complete with one of those little plastic bubbles other toys from the same machine came in. Problem is, if she paid a quarter for it she paid too much!
     
  12. EdSutton

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    The 'doctorate' shots by you and Keith M are uncalled for. While I personally choose to call anyone whom I do not know well "Dr." if they have either earned that degree or had one awarded by any educational institution in any field, one is not required to do the same, and can well call someone Mr., Miss, or Mrs. as they choose. (Assuming one can tell the difference, you understand! :laugh:)

    As I posted before, her Doctorate was awarded (or conferred) by a Christian College. Regardless of what I personally think of her positions and/or the institution, it is not "outta a boxa Crackerjax", nor from one of the Wal-Mart "quarter vending thingies", and those cracks are demeaning, and less than we should expect from Christians.

    If one wants to raise questions about "authority", her postitons, her scholarship, her actual credentials, her marriages, or her testimony, be my guest. They may well be (and are, IMO) legitimate questions.

    Ed Sutton, B.A., N.D.

    PS. I'll give my own 'Academic qualifications' should anyone ask.
     
    #12 EdSutton, Sep 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2007
  13. Logos1560

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    Here are some examples from the Gospel of Matthew:

    Matt. 2:5 At Bethlehem in Jewry (Bishops) In Bethlehem of Judea (KJV)
    Matt. 9:20 hem of his vesture (Bishops) hem of his garment (KJV)
    Matt. 10:15 land of the Sodomites and Gomorreans (Bishops)
    land of Sodom and Gomorrha (KJV)
    Matt. 11:5 the halt do walk (Bishops) the lame walk (KJV)
    Matt. 12:7 if ye wist (Bishops) if ye had known (KJV)
    Matt. 12:45 froward generation (Bishops) wicked generation (KJV)
    Matt. 13:18 the similitude of the sower (Bishops) the parable of the sower (KJV)
    Matt. 14:15 when the even drew on (Bishops) when it was evening (KJV)
    Matt. 14:20 were sufficed (Bishops) were filled (KJV)
    Matt. 15:33 to suffice (Bishops) to fill (KJV)
    Matt. 16:18 my congregation (Bishops) my church (KJV)
    Matt. 17:22 While they were occupied (Bishops) And while they abode (KJV)
    Matt. 19:1 he gat him from Galilee (Bishops) he departed from Galilee (KJV)
    Matt. 20:22 Ye wot not what ye ask (Bishops) Ye know not what ye ask (KJV)
    Matt. 21:14 the blind and the halt (Bishops) the blind and the lame (KJV)
    Matt. 21:19 And anon (Bishops) And presently (KJV)
    Matt. 24:17 to fet any thing (Bishops) to take any thing (KJV)
    Matt. 25:38 harbourless (Bishops) a stranger (KJV)
    Matt. 26:70 I wot not (Bishops) I know not (KJV)
     
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    Here are a few examples from the Gospel of John:

    John 4:22 ye wot not what (Bishops) ye know not what (KJV)
    John 6:17 And gat up into a ship (Bishops) And entered into a ship (KJV)
    John 9:22 excommunicate out (Bishops) put out (KJV)
    John 11:4 infirmity (Bishops) sickness (KJV)
    John 11:55 Easter (Bishops) Passover (KJV)
    John 13:7 wotest not now (Bishops) knowest not now (KJV)
    John 13:15 ensample (Bishops) example (KJV)
    John 13:37 will jeoparde (Bishops) will lay down (KJV)
    John 20:13 I wot not (Bishops) I know not (KJV)
    John 21:6 and anon (Bishops) and now (KJV)
     

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