Did Mohammed exist?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by church mouse guy, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    I don't recall if this was ever a thread here, but a couple of years ago Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch wrote a book entitled Did Muhammad Exist?: An Inquiry into Islam’s Obscure Origins. Spencer concludes that there is no evidence that Muhammad ever existed.

    Robert Spencer's website Jihad Watch: http://www.jihadwatch.org/
     
    #1 church mouse guy, Sep 15, 2014
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  2. Crabtownboy

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    There is no evidence that Alexander the Great ever lived.

    When it is said 'no evidence' what is meant there is no record from the time they lived that has come down to us such as there is from Josephus who mentions Jesus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
    www.facingthechallenge.org/josephus.php

    I would not put much stock in such comments from ancient times.
     
    #2 Crabtownboy, Sep 15, 2014
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  3. church mouse guy

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    Where did you get your information about Alexander the Great? The same Roman historians who mentioned Jesus also mentioned Alexander the Great. No one mentions Muhammad.

     
  4. Crabtownboy

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    Alexander the Great and Josephus lived centuries apart. Alexander was born in 356 BC. Josephus mentioning him is not proof from Alexander's era. There are no writings from Alexander's time on earth that mention him.

    Alexander the Great was born in 356 BC.
    Josephus was born in 37 AD.

     
    #4 Crabtownboy, Sep 15, 2014
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  5. church mouse guy

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    Oh, I see what you are saying. Of all the ancient world, only Jesus is well-documented. You could just as well argue that there is no proof that Julius Caesar existed along your lines of thinking. Where you miss the boat is that no one at all who does leave a record mentions Muhammad. Another problem that you are not discussing is that we are talking of an era a thousand years after the one that you are talking about.

    From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

    [​IMG]

    Alexander the Great, portrait head on a coin of Lysimachus (355–281 bce); in the British Museum.
    Courtesy of the trustees of the British Museum; photograph, J.R. Freeman & Co. Ltd.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/14224/Alexander-the-Great/59261/Evaluation
     
  6. Bro. James

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    The only difference between intelligent speculation and ignorant speculation is the intelligent variety usually costs more.

    Arguments from silence are usually very weak. i.e. If the authority does not say it is wrong, it must be right. Try: "Whatever is not of faith is sin."

    Satan has thrown up false prophets in every generation since the beginning of the long war with God.

    God sent many prophets; Israel killed many of them. He sent His Son, also a prophet, to die for the sins of the whole world; which He did as a redemption for many. Jesus said He is the way, the truth, the life. No one gets to the Father except through Him.

    Jesus said there were thieves and robbers before Him and many would come after Him--do not believe them.

    Allah is a fact: another false god, one of many.

    The historicity of Mohammed is probably not really important. ISIS would still be ISIS with or without Mohammed.There are false gods, many, false prophets, many and spurious scripture, many. Jehovah and Allah are not the same, regardless of what many people in high places would espouse.

    We are in the last minutes of the last hour of the sixth day(in God's time: 1000 years is a day) since The Creation.

    Jesus is the only one who can settle the chaos created by the god of this world.

    Are we ready?
    :jesus:
    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #6 Bro. James, Sep 15, 2014
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  7. church mouse guy

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    If Muhammad never existed, Spencer says that the story about his marrying a 9 year old girl when he was 54 (child molestation) does provide cover for the widespread Arabic and Islamic practice of marrying little girls.

    I myself agree with English Puritan poet John Milton that Allah is another name for Satan.
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    This isn't the first I've heard about this line of inquiry. It is usually along the same lines as folks who question the historicity of Jesus.

    It might be an interesting study to take up. I find the initial discussion, from the author, to be dubious. Though I can't see all of it, I have a sneaking suspicion his historiography is askew. That said, I'll be sure to follow up and investigate further.

    One of the real challenges with history in this period is how different evidences must be dutifully weighed. It isn't cut and dry. I do believe Muhammed existed, and was alive when his followers say he was alive. Some of his life is not accurately retold.
     
  9. Crabtownboy

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    Is his name on the coin? No.

    A coin is not documentary proof.

    By the way, I do believe he did exist. I also believe that Mohammad lived and died ... and is dead still.
     
  10. church mouse guy

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    Oh, that is just one of several images and sites listed by Encyclopedia Britannica and others that survive dealing with Alexander the Great. Of course, the ancient world left more accounts of Jesus than Julius Caesar, but 1000 years later comes the time of the record of Mohammad so that is a different epic and has a different set of historical documents. The problem is that apparently there are no surviving contemporary mentions of Mohammad and no surviving coins, etc.

    To say that a coin is not documentary proof is technically correct since it would be archeological evidence and there is no archeological evidence from the 7th century for Mohammad, not to mention no documentary evidence. Here again we are dealing with 1000 years after ancient Greece so I am not sure that the analogy holds.

    Another review of Spencer's book listing the details of the evidence is here:

    http://answering-islam.org/authors/roark/muhammad_exist.html
     
    #10 church mouse guy, Sep 15, 2014
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  11. church mouse guy

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    Another problem is that the account of Mohammad's live comes from a fragment dated 834, two hundred years after his life. Now the fragments of the New Testament do not date that far back but the Gospel seems to have been written around 60 AD, or thirty years after the death of Jesus. And there are many accounts and secular histories also, but nothing like that at all for Mohammad.



     
  12. church mouse guy

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    Concerning archeological evidence, Zombie in PJ Media writes in his review of Spencer:

    http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2012/04/23/book-review-did-muhammad-exist-by-robert-spencer/2/
     

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