Did Oakland Police Intentionally Shoot Marine Vet Scott Olsen In the Head?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    Marine Veteran Was Peacefully Standing When Attacked by Police

    The following photograph on videos show that Marine veteran Scott Olsen was peacefully standing at the Oakland protest when police fired a projectile at him:

    CONTINUE . . .

    As the events that led to Oakland protester Scott Olsen's head injury continue to unfold and investigations begin, we thought it important to offer some perspective.

    This comment is from a former Marine with special operations in crowd control.

    He points out that shooting canisters such as those that likely hit Scott Olsen is prohibited under rules of engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan. Regardless of any political position on the Occupy protests, these are some Interesting insights.

    CONTINUE . . .

    Flashback . . . Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More.

    I'll say it is.

    Notice the "terrorist" is a returning war veteran? Now why is that do suppose? Coincidence?
     
    #1 poncho, Oct 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2011
  2. Salty

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    I don't know why you call him a Marine - He was out of uniform! Now the Sailor standing next to him - but if the Navy has the same regs, it is unauthorized to be in uniform at a political rally.
     
  3. poncho

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    Once a marine always a marine. Semper Fidelis!

    Figured even you'd know that Salty. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #3 poncho, Oct 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2011
  4. Salty

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    I agree, but wouldn't you agree that a true Marine, Solider, Airman or Sailor would not disgrace the uniform of the United States Military?
     
  5. HankD

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    IMO, No.

    But I believe certain propagandists want that perception to be promoted.


    HankD
     
  6. righteousdude2

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    If You Are in The Heat of the Fire....

    ....You can be expected to be burned. Everyone at the Oakland rally, when it turned ugly (failed to cease and desist as ordered), had the opportunity to leave the area. If you continue to stand in the midst of a potentially explosive situation, you alone are responsible for the actions and reactions that transpire.

    He may or may not have been taunting or the catalyst of the potential anger about to break out, but he was no less there, and the responsibility of his injury is at least 50% his. He is not a victim. Sorry, I don't see it as anything less than righteous reaction on behalf of law enforcement!
     
  7. poncho

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    Not knowingly.

    So I take it you don't have a problem with a cop shooting a marine in the head at close range so long as he either is out of uniform or has "disgraced" it in some form or another.

    Is that about right? And just what is a true Marine, Soldier, Airman or Sailor?

    What make one un-true?

    No surprise there.

    Doesn't it bother you that the tactics used here in the good ole USA against citizens aren't even allowed in war zones? I suspect probably not. But I thought I'd ask anyways.
     
    #7 poncho, Nov 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2011
  8. Don

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    Question: I watched the video several times. I can't make out that the individual was struck by the cannister. In fact, based on the location of the Navy kid waving the flag (who, by the way, if he's currently enlisted, should be facing at the least non-judicial punishment for being in uniform at a political rally), and the fact that the Marine was standing next to him, it looked to me like the initial tear gas cannister came from behind them and went over their heads, not bounced off of one of them. Unless we're talking about a previous tear gas cannister that the camera didn't catch.

    The flash-bang that was tossed into the middle of the 5-10 people -- now *that* was incorrect. Reminds me of the time we had some Air Force security specialists playing war games against some Marines, and one of the Marines tossed a GBS (ground burst simulator) into a foxhole. The airman was subsequently medically retired due to the burning and damage of his leg. Never heard what happened to the Marine.
     
  9. freeatlast

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    I think it is improper, in fact impossible, to say that he was intestinally hit in the head. However I think it is very clear that the police did use the canisters with total disregard to anyone’s safety as well as with no cause, so in that it could be said that they used unnecessary force with intent to harm.

    I made a statement a few weeks ago how the military would in the future shoot citizens and some were upset. You can bet that some of those officers are ex military and many of them have a kill nature in them and care nothing about peaceful citizens. All they care about is orders and would, if the orders are given, maim or kill without any remorse innocent people and in fact would justify their own actions.

    The police in this action should be disciplined as this was not handled properly.
     
  10. Don

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    I think that's worth a belly laugh. . . .

    So all military are brainwashed baby-killers? Or is it that the miltary only accepts psychopaths and sociopaths? Or that the military makes them all bloodthirsty, mindless killing machines?
     
  11. freeatlast

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    I think the military makes many men killers in an extended war as we have been in. The brain washing that goes on gets deep into their heart and mind and the person can lose sight of how to deal with people that are not enemy combatants and when they come across someone suspoected of a crime they use it as an excuse to excessive force.
    So when they come home many of them are not able to separate from their experience that they had in the military. This is why we see many of them seek out to become private security in war zones. If you remember what many of the so called ex-military have done to citizens in Iraq and other countries calling it security then you will see what happens. They are trigger happy and brutal seeking the high of the kill or fight. This is what we see happening here now and it will escalate as more and more ex-military who join the civilian police forces and agencies not to mention those who remain in the military and the government turns them lose on the populous.
     
  12. poncho

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    No not at all. The psychopaths and sociopaths are the ones who usually become high ranking officers. The same ones who'll violate their oath (to protect and defend the constitution) without blinking on a daily basis, for the "cause".

    Or is it that our military has just become accustomed to unquestioningly following orders from the psychopaths and sociopaths that naturally rise to the top politically?
     
    #12 poncho, Nov 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2011
  13. Don

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    Would you please provide the sources for your information?
     
  14. freeatlast

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  15. TCassidy

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    I don't think the officer firing the tear gas grenade deliberately targeted the former Marine. However, I do believe the officer acted way outside of policy. No rules of engagement could allow such a disregard of the health and safety of the public. After all, don't their police cars have the logo "To Protect and Serve?"

    As to the statement by righteousdude2 that they got what they deserved for failing to disperse after being ordered to do so by the police, uh, I disagree. Righteousdude2 you appear to be about my age (I'm 65). I remember when the civil rights marchers in Birmingham were ordered to disperse and when they did not they were attacked with billy clubs, fire hoses, and vicious dogs. But they kept coming back for more! Had they not persevered Blacks would still be sitting in the back of the bus and not allowed in "White" restrooms, restaurants, transportation, nor would they be allowed to vote.

    I disagree with the OWS group and their politics, but as a free man who believes freedom is not really freedom unless we ALL have it, I will defend to my death their right to political protest. :)
     
  16. Don

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    Interesting video. Which ones were ex-military? The ones chasing the deer? Or the one dancing in the convenience store?
     
  17. freeatlast

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    There was several videos there. You can do the reasearch if interested.
     
  18. Don

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    No; YOU do the research. YOU made the assertion that many of the police officers in the video were ex-military; prove it.

    You made a definitive claim that many violent policemen are ex-military; surely you have something more than a youtube video, which doesn't identify the officers it highlights, or the locations, or provide other source material with which to verify that it hasn't been edited or doctored?

    Because, ya know, if you can't provide proof, then you're making unsubstantiated assertions and presenting them as fact. Some folks call that "lying."
     
  19. Sapper Woody

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    The problem is not that the military brainwashes people into killers. If that were the case, then the military would also produce the most outstanding moral men full of character, as that is actually pushed harder than the killing aspect. In fact, we are now (and for the past few years) being told that if we can get away with it, don't kill someone who is attacking us. We want to win the hearts and minds of the people so that they stop becoming insurgents.

    The problem is that the military has lowered its standards of entry in the past (I say past, because now the military is getting ready to go through a downsizing), allowing people of much lower repute in. These people then get the training of the military, hold on to their past problems/perceptions/attitudes, and when they get out, they are the same person, only more lethal. It's not the military's fault, the fault lies with the person.

    The reason that many ex-military seek to become privatized security in war zones is that they already have the skill set, and it pays a 6-digit salary.

    Now, you may argue that I am different due to me being Christian. And I can't speak for the whole military. But I can speak for those in my platoon, a combined 36 guys. Out of 36 of us, about 2/3 of us have seen actual combat where we fired our weapon at someone. (Incidentally, 34/36 of us have been within 25m of either an IED detonation or incoming artillery) Out of those, 100% do not wish to ever have to kill a person. The ones of us who have killed feel bad that we had to. I personally would not mind if I got through this whole deployment without ever having to fire my weapon again (and that's not cowardice. I am willing to fight. I would just rather not kill if it can be avoided.).

    So, I say again, it's not the military that is brainwashing people to become killers. It's that killers are joining the military, and becoming better at it through training.
     
    #19 Sapper Woody, Nov 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2011
  20. freeatlast

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    Don I am not going to do your homework. We see this all the time in the news and they will say and sund such is an ex-....... some military branch. It is a fact.
     

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