Did Paul Know For Certain...?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did Paul know for certain that Clement and the others, names were written in the book of life (Phil 4:3)? How was Paul able to make this statement?
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    Short answer, he did so under inspiration of Holy Spirit.

    That said, Paul looked at their behavior (they were his "fellow workers") and concluded that their actions were consistant with their profession of faith.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Was (is) that a function of the Spirit? Did the Spirit help Paul to discern those who were false?

    2. What then do we make of Demas who once was a fellow worker but defected (Col 4:14; 2 Tim 4:10)?
     
  4. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did Demas defect the faith or did he defect Paul?
     
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lebuick,

    Good question--but what does it mean to "love the world"?
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    Demas was not saved, just worked with Paul. There are many unsaved people in churches all over the world. today.
     
  7. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now, this is a strong reply. :thumbs:
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    My policy?

    Assume no one is saved until I get to know them.

    "Know them that labor among your"

    If you assume someone is saved, and they are not, you will not be the witness that they need. Oh sure, you will speak of faith and unity in the body, but the witness will not be that which that lost soul needs.

    You can assume someone is saved because they know Scripture, or attend Church faithfully and all the time, they are loving the world.

    Yes, it is possible to 'know them,' to know if they are saved or not. Their life will reflect their hearts eventually.
     
  9. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    The heart is the heart of the matter--what is really there? Jesus focus was on the heart too (Matt 15:8, 9).
     
  10. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree, I just know some use him as an argument against OSAS. I think you and SFIC said it well.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I assume any who give strong, consistent testimony of regeneration are born again. Just my assumption.

    Some I would now question, since their lives no longer match their words. But even then, people (Believers) sin and may drift away or lose their first love.

    Still saved. And glad it is not up to ME to be the judge, based on what I "see". I would make erroneous judgment (like some here are wont to do).
     
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is why God never summons any human to help Him decide a case.
     
  13. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    0

    Strong yes, but so is the smell of dung. Based in doctrinal ignorance, yes.

    Simpletons generally make rash conclusions, and within Christianity particularly about whether someone is saved or not, they are eager to make such declarations based on very limited information.

    As well they misunderstand even the most simple passages in Scripture and subsequently misapplied them in their confusion as STIC has done.

    Believers are commanded to "love not the world" which reveals it is possible for a believer to love the world or else it would not be commanded.

    Hence, when the theologically confused get a hold of a single passage and disregard its context or use such as "If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him" they, in their eagerness to wield this new found weapon of apparent righteousness, misuse it and foolishly claim someone can't be saved because they are said to have "loved this world". Of course in the midst of their claims and declarations they are totally oblivious to any other passages related to the issue at hand such as the reality that believers can love the world as revealed in the command for believers to NOT love the world.
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    One can be a believer and not be saved. Shocked? Judas knew who he had betrayed... yet he was not saved.

    My oldest brother would tell you he believed that Jesus was the Son of God. And yet, my oldest brother died a drunkard 6 months ago. He is now in a devil's hell. And yet, he believed.

    The fact that John said that if they loved the world, the love of the Father was not in them, showed that their love for the world was proof that their belief or profession was not possession.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12

    Believing is never enough. When the Bible speaks of "believing" it is simple synecdoche, "the part representing the whole".

    Was your brother regenerated? Did YOU relegate him to hell because he didn't demonstrate to YOU that he was truly born of God? Remember, he answers to GOD, not any man.


    I am glad I am not a relative of yours. :(
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did not relegate my brother to hell. He chose that path himself. Even on his deathbed, he refused to talk with members of his family who were saved.

    God's Word declares that no drunkard will inherit the kingdom of God.

    No, God's Word is truth. Melvin chose to serve a different god than the one who loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die for mankind that mankind might live for Him.

    I have another brother who I try to witness to, but alas, a prophet is without honor in his own country. This brother is so full of hatred for all that is God. He drinks, he curses. He is not below beating up his younger sister who 2 days before had surgery both on her back and other areas of her body. And still carries that same hatred.

    Yet, he served in a church as an usher for over a year.

    No, I cannot lie and say Melvin is in heaven, nor can I lie and say Mike is saved. Their fruits paint an entirely different picture.
     
  17. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Acts 16
    Hmmmm...
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Do you understand that you cannot take ONE verse or word and make it a "doctrine"? You take ALL God said about it.

    That's how heresy gets started. You can pull ANY verse and make it sound "spiritual". But alone, it is not the WHOLE picture.

    Catholic veneration of Mary is because a couple of verses/phrases ripped from the total text. Don't err, my friend.
     
  19. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    If believing is all that is needed, why is there a command for man to 'sin not'?

    Salvation is more than believing. The devils themselves believe Jesus is the Son of God... yet they can never be saved.

    Believing is an action word. Else the Spirit was lying when He inspired John on the Isle of Patmos to write that all idolators, whoremongers, sorcerers, liars, and such would have their part in the lake of fire.


    No, believing is much more than profession, it is possession. It is walking in Christ. It is being led by the Spirit.
     
  20. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree, even Satan knows who Jesus is but I don't think he's saved.
     

Share This Page

Loading...