Did the Apostle In 1 John mean A Christian cannot Sin any longer?

But even when you were beginning playing guitar, you didn't practice making mistakes. Yes, you made mistakes, but they weren't your intention. I think that's FAL's point, if I am reading his posts properly.

 

BINGO for me. The Spirit will lead us unto all truths. We are babes in Christ after the new birth. We grow in faith and knowledge, and we will make mistakes, but we never do practice sinning any more.

 

You are correct in as far as you go. I am also saying it is possible to live above any sin at all based on what the bible teaches. I have not done it, but I certainly seek for it and do better then I did in the past as each day is a new start. However to live as if it is impossible then it will be. I do not believe we are to live our Christian life as if we are defeated before it is even finished. Sadly that is exactly how most approach the Christian walk as they live to the sayings of "no one is perfect" or "we all sin every day" " we are just human" or what ever other kind of negitive attitude we hold to keep us in defeat. The real problem is not that we cannot do it but most do not want to know we can as it piles too much light on our love for darkness.

The question has anyone ever done it (live without sin after salvation)? Yes I would say some probably have. The thief on the cross would be one in my opinion. To suggest that we cannot even make it one day without sinning is defeatism. Why would anyone want what we have as they already have it without all the conviction if we cannot even make it one day?

I would say this also. None of the things you mentioned can keep us from achieving this walk, as all they do is give an excuse as why not to seek it diligently. Some things you mentioned are very close to piling weights on the backs of men that you cannot even bear yourself. For instance to suggest that we have to be thinking about what we do is for the Lord and if not it is sin is not correct. You cannot find such a thing any place in scripture. Yes all we do in word or deed should be done for the Lord and that will become a natural event without a thought as our hearts and minds are surrendered to Him if we do not deny it is possible. Also to suggest that we cannot respond to to an attack is incorrect. The Lord did get angry and did respond with actions. If you mean we are not to hold hate or retaliate to a insult then I agree. We are commanded not to sin in the mist of anger not to keep anger totally out of our lives.Total passivity is not biblical.

I am not sure how it is in your Christian life but I can say with full peace before my Lord that since the day I was saved, pushing 30 years now, and I have talked with others who experience the same thing, there has not been a month, not a week, not a day, not an hour, not a minute I am not aware of the Lord. In fact even in the night when I am asleep I many times am aware of Him. I awake to Him and fall to sleep to Him and all day long he fills my mind in everything I do so it is possible to do all we do unto the Lord. It is just a choice in the mist of being aware of Him if we will and yes even in that I sometimes do not do His will, but it is not an everyday thing to do mine instead of His.

Another problem is when anyone tries to put the time frame of a day as being how often we all sin. That is simply false. First we do not ever have to sin, it is always a choice. Second if we can go a minute then we can go an hour and if an hour, 5 hours, and if 5 then the day. We are not even awake for 24 hours. The problem with so many is that they love grace above righteousness and we are eagerly deceiving ourselves.

By the way the things you mentioned are not habits, they are sin. We need to learn not to tone down the truth. Habits sounds like we are overcome, sin says I chose to do it with no excuse.

 

Mistakes are not sin. It is not a mistake if we sleep with another spouse, or lie or rob or use the ord's name in vain. All sin is a choice and from the moment of salvation we have the ability to not sin if we choose to.
1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

The word "mistakes" I was using for "sin". If we sin, we chose to do it. We are not coerced/forced to do it, btw.

 

I understand what you were saying, but I think it is not wise to change the word. Adultery is not a mistake, it is sin. Murder is not mistake it is sin, a lie is not a mistake it is sin. All stem from thought out willful acts and all are sin. When we use the word mistake it sounds like we are not totally responsible while sin says I chose to do it against what I knew I should have done. And you are correct, all sin is a choice.

 

You are, in deed, correct.

 

Some Scriptural Light:

-I Kings 8:46 - " If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin"

-Proverbs 20:9 - "Who can say, “I have made my heart pure; I am clean from my sin”?

-Ecclesiastes 7:20 - "20 Surely jthere is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."

-Jesus told us to pray DAILY: "forgive us our sins." (Matt 6).

 

You are seeking to hang on to defeatism. The first three passages are dealing with self righteousness, and those who claim no sin ever not a believer living above sin in their daily life.

As for the last passage I will say at a minimum you have miss-read it and miss-applied it.
First the prayer was not suggesting we sin daily unless you are saying we are sinned against daily also, but we are not. Also you left out an important passage in that prayer;

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen

If we are to believe He is going to forgive us, give us our daily needs then we also need to believe He is going to deliver us from all evil and not lead us into temptation. That passage suggests that He leads, keeping us from temptation, so we are following. We have the tools, we just have to stop living a defeated life and use them.
Again a strongly challenge you to diligently seek to live just one day above sin and learn the blessings that come with it, but you will have to stip the defeated mind-set to get it done. Unless we are following the God that can accomplish all things He calls us to we are not following as we should.

 

Free will and the pleasure of sin for a season.

 

I am not sure what "extreme Lordship salvation is." I do hold to Lordship salvation although it has taken on bad connotations for some. As you know I do not hold to two natures. Even the idea of it is silly if we just think about it. The next time you dog starts acting like a cat let me know and I will take another look at dual natures in man.
As to relationship and fellowship they are not the same any more then repentance and faith are, but like repentance and faith they are not seperatable. You cannot have a relationship without fellowship. The fellowship may not be all one would like, but it has to be there if there is a relationship.

As to sinless perfection you still have not answered my question as to what you consider that to be.

 

The two natures issue is one that can explain rationaile for Lordship Salvation, in that Those like John MacArthur do not believe a Christian has 2 natures (old and new), but rather that the old nature is transformed into a new nature that does not "practice" sin. (again, there is the problem of defining what "practice" means).

However, Even John Mac accepts that Christians do sin, even though they shouldn't:

And further, regarding how a transformed person can sin, He denies the two natures, but says mingled in my one nature is both Godly desires and sinful desires: (so to me, the 2 natures argument on both sides may be more of a way to speak about the inner struggle than two actual beings in side of us.)

So MacArthur also admits that christians WILL SIN:

 

A dog is never born again.

The new birth is why we have two natures.

The new birth brings the spiritual nature.

The controversy is whether the old (the flesh) is eradicated.

If not why then are we instructed to walk in the Spirit to avoid the works of the flesh?

Galatians 5

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.​

The flesh remains and we are instructed to mortify the deeds of the old nature:​

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:​

Seems we could all use a little more of this kind of scriptural advice seeing the awful and accusatory interchanges going on here at the BB lately.​

HankD​

 

I agree with you Hank, the scriptures would not have to repeatedly tell us to "put off" sin if we have one nature.

And this is exactly HOW the Holy Spirit works in those that believe, through the Word of God. If we listen to God's Word and obey it, we will not sin.

 

Agreed.

1 Peter 1

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.​

HankD​

 

1 Pet 1:14 describes the unsaved or natural man. They operate according to their natural desires and lusts. They are ignorant of the ways of God and operate according to their own thinking. For example, the natural man will hate someone who hates him, it is a natural reaction, where Jesus told us to love our enemies as God loved us even when we were in enmity to him.

When a person believes God's word, he will naturally be inclined toward it.