Did the Early Church Adhere to Historical Premillennialism?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by KenH, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    What do ya'll think of the arguments that the early church pretty much advocated what we today call historical premillenialism? Since I think it is always best to adhere to the early church's understanding of the Scriptures before man-made systems corrupted church theology, I am interested if there are any chinks in the idea that this was the early church's esschatology - realizing of course that they did not have everything systematized as we do today.
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe I read somewhere that there were conflicting beliefs among those of the early church about eschatology. I will try to find that information and quote it for you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    I found this on the Internet:

    Then I read he started hating Jews and changed his views. :confused:

    I always associated him as being Roman Catholic but perhaps he was not. That may be the subject for debate on another thread. Of course the Catholics will say he was, but I wasn't around then to know for sure.... ;)
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    My main problem with eschatology is that it appears to be a theological Tower of Babel. All viewpoints use certain verses in the Bible and certain quotes from early church theologians to say that they are correct.

    This is all very frustrating to someone who likes his theology cut and dried. :eek:
     
  5. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    II. AUGUSTINE’S ESCHATOLOGYIt may shock some to realize that Augustine was not only premillennial5in his early eschatology, but he was also dispensational.

    ROFL! Don't you just love undocumented claims.
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was clear that they were premillenial. However, they didn't write alot about eschatology. It is a matter of fact doctrine. It is true, but the emphasis is and should be upon salvation, holiness, etc.

    I do find that they believed in the imminent return of Christ. Now, if they thought they were living in THE tribulation (not just tribulation), then they were posttrib/premill.

    I believe they were pretrib/premill. That is a matter of debate, because they aren't the final authority.

    The theologians that have convinced me of pretrib are Paul, John, Luke, Peter, Mark, and Matthew. [​IMG]
     
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Brother Daniel David -- Preach it [​IMG]

    You can preach that until the cows come home!
    Better still: you can preach that until
    the Sheep go Home!

    [​IMG]
     
  8. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    As I said, eschatology is a theological Tower of Babel. I guess until Jesus does return we have no way of knowing with certainty in what way many of the events of the last day will unfold.
     
  9. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    What makes you believe they were pretrib? Can you provide any reasons, any quotes, etc?
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    There are certain "issues" (or conflicts that became the focal point of 99% of the writing and debate of an age.

    In 100-300 it focused on the Canon
    300-600 focus on Deity of Christ
    600-1200 focus on person piety (monasticism)
    1200-1600 focus on Grace v works
    1600-1800 focus on Denominational distinctions
    1800-1900 focus on expanding the Kingdom (missions)
    1900-2000 focus on fundamentals of the faith

    What would it be in our era? The KJVO sect is just a miniscule fraction of fundamentalism which is likewise a small % of evangelicalism which is less than 10% of Christianity!

    So it is not that. Open for suggestions!
     
  11. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is not really a simple answer to this! Many early church fathers did have a premillenial understanding of eschatology so to speak - more of what we would call historical premillenialism as opposed to the dispensational premillenialism we see today. Irenaeus was probably the earliest big proponent of a millenial system. We do find a difference in the western (Latin) fathers and eastern (Greek) fathers starting to emerge however. Also, the thing that makes this all so tough to sort out is that the early church fathers' views of the millenium were very tied into, if not derived somewhat from their thoughts on the state of the soul after death. Where will all the dead in Christ be during this period? This is where the Catholic doctrine of purgatory began to emerge as well. Those who believed in a literal millenium were often referred to as "chiliasts". So to sum it up... probably a majority of early church fathers could be loosely described as historical premillenialists! :D
     
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    14
    Great question Dr. Bob. I believe it will be Eschatology. The farther we get away from 1948 the more Christians will question thier beliefs on "end-times". It is already starting. I believe RC Sprouls book " The Last Days According to Jesus" has already got many thinking. You're a smart man Dr. Bob, allow yourself the possibilty of being wrong and take a good hard look at it.
     
  13. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Me, too.

    Oh no!

    My computer must be on the blink! GH & I actually agree on something - this is a FIRST for the BB! [​IMG]

    Lord, help me, I'm feeling faint! :D ;) :eek:
     
  14. Tim

    Tim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    0
    Justin Martyr at least was premillenial AND he believed in "replacement theology"

    Tim
     
  15. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Thank you. Smart enough to have carefully studied through the issue in the past 35 years of ministry. But will start a new thread on what will be the "issue of focus" in the church, as this debate will get lost here on this thread.
     
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    14
    And how long has the Pope been Catholic? [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Loading...