Did you ever question the Messiah being called Jesus rather than Immanuel?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jer2913, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. Jer2913

    Jer2913
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    Who here was a skeptic of Jesus as the Messiah, but now believes? If you were a skeptic did you ever question why He wasn't named Immanuel from prophecy, and if not, how come?

    The reason I'm wondering is because I have read some popular books proving Jesus as Messiah (the main one that comes to mind is Case For Christ), and most of them haven't gotten into the topic of the Messiah being called Jesus rather than Immanuel.
    Now I do see it talked about on websites, like a page or so's worth, but I don't really understand why it's not really thought about (or at least brought up) when writing books. So if you didn't really question why Jesus wasn't named Immanuel, I liked to know why:).


    Jer2913
     
  2. Martin

    Martin
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    Because He will save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:20-23). They were told by the angel to name the baby "Jesus" (Jehovah Saves) for the reason cited above. The prophecy, from Isaiah 7:14, talks about who Jesus is (God w/ us).

    There does not seem to be anything to question there. At least not in my mind.

    Martin.
     
  3. genesis12

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    "Immanuel" is an appellation: God with us. Jesus is his name: Jehovah, God saves. The original pronunciation of Jehovah would be Yahveh (not Yahway.) There are hundreds of websites, chat rooms, and forums about this. To ask "why wasn't He named....." begs the question: Why ask it? We accept without question the appellation, the Biblical answer as to WHAT He was named, and WHO He is. Perhaps this contextual insight is helpful: You shall designate and identify the name Jehovah (Jesus; God saves) as nothing less than Immanuel, God with us.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    In answer to your question for the thread: No. I haven't. Why should I question it?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
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    Jesus has many names and titles. EmmanuEL is one of them, just as He is the Rock, the Bread of Life, Redeemer, Deliverer, Savior, The Way, The Truth, The Life, The Good Shepherd, The Living Water, I AM, the Alpha and Omega, The Branch, The Root of David, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Prince of Peace, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Counselor, etc.

    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


    Here is a very interesting article that talks about the name of Jesus and the etymology from Greek to English,as well as the origin of His Hebrew Name, Yeshua.

    http://www.seekgod.ca/htwhatsinaname.htm
     
  6. ronthedisciple

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    I can't say I had ever questioned why Jesus was not namd Immanuel by Mary and Joseph. But, there was a time when I wanted to know where Jesus' name came from and what significance it had in regards to names like Immanuel, Prince of Peace, King of Kings, etc. etc.

    My studies showed me that Jesus, or Yeshua, or Joshua are all basically the same name, just different languages or time periods. It basically means, God Saves. Seems to me that compliments Immanuel, God With Us. "eloidalmanutha" has already listed some other names that speak of Jesus Christ, and would like to add my personal favorite: Often in my life, with my closest of friends and family, we use nicknames for each other, which develop into names which have special and personal meaning for us. My personal relationship with Jesus is no different, although my personal "nickname" for my Lord has been selected with great care and reverence. For me, personally, Life (capital L), is how I see my Lord Jesus - and He did say it is so Himself, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life..." Life, for me, does not exclude any of the other names that describe my Best Friend, rather it includes them.

    Recently in Sunday School, we had a discussion about what's in a name. There is so much more to our Savior and King than just the name "Jesus" (or any other name one might make use of). When we pray, for example, in His name, we ought to be praying as He would pray, seeking what He would seek, desiring what He desires - for His name speaks of all that He is, and of what we ought to be working to become.
     
  7. Jer2913

    Jer2913
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    Ok in my mind this is how I understand the passage of Isaiah 7:14. Isaiah 7:14 says" 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
    Ok when I read this it talks about a virgin birth, and what the son of the virgin shall be called. To me this is saying here's the sign a boy will be of a virgin and will be called Immanuel.
    Now I know verses like Isaiah 9:6 says" 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
    Now here's some of the differences I see with the two passages.
    1. The way the Isaiah 9:6 passage reads, I would see them of more like titles. One is because I don't think they would give a kid a whole bunch of names legally at birth to go by for a first name(now as far as I know all they used was one name back then, but I'm using an example from our time period because we use first, middle, and last name). Secondly the way I think of it, when you mention birth and calling a baby that at birth that means that's there given name there whole life, that's the name they go by.

    Now I definately realise that I am from a different culture than the Jews and especially from the Jews in Bible times, so I can definately be misunderstanding how this prophecy is meant, and if that's the case, then I would be grateful if anyone could give me some good hebrew culture study materials to learn about hebrew culture back then.

    Mainly what I'm getting at is that, I'm not saying your wrong, I just want some answers, something to help me understand this prophecy, and something to basically help me realize and understand what I'm misunderstanding about this.


    Thanks for the help!:-D
    Jer2913
     
  8. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
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    Jer2913,

    Ha Shem, or the The Name, in Hebrew means coming in the authority and the power of someone. In Jesus' case, He comes in the Name of the Lord, His Father - Jesus came in the authority and power of God. It is not in the pronunciation or the actual title or "name" that God or Jesus is known by, but by who He is.

    When God spoke to Moses to let Israel know who Moses was coming in the Name of - God chose "I AM". Jesus called Himself "I AM". He also called Himself many Names in the Gospels because God is multifacited. He is not just "a Name". To know God is to know His Name - not a pronunciation or a specific "name", but that you have a living, vibrant relationship with Him. Then you will know His Name - as Savior, Redeemer, EmmanuEL, Shepard, Provider, The Way, The Truth, The Life, Prince of Peace, Almighty God, etc.

    ps: From experience, it is not as important to know God Hebraically as it is to know Him as your God and Savior. The Holy Spirit leads and guides into all truth. Jesus said - IF you continue in MY WORD, you shall have the Truth and the Truth shall make you free [John 8:32]
     
  9. eloidalmanutha

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    OT prophecy was given to point us to the Messiah. It was God's way to indicate Who the Messiah would be and how the Jews would recognize Him.

    Jesus was born to fulfill all the prophecies about Himself, which He did on the cross. Jesus was born as a Jew, but He is not a Jew. He is God. Jesus came that *all* who called upon Him would be saved from sin and be reconciled to God.

    The OT also gives us a complex and intricate idea of Who God is. All that He is, is expressed in and through Jesus Christ. OT prophecy is not about Jewishness, but about God Who would come manifest in the flesh as the Son of God to be the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb and thereby fulfill all prophecy about the Messiah.

    The Names that God gives us the OT are "names" that Jesus Himself also gave Himself, as we can see in the Gospels - so that all would know that He is God's Son and the Propitiation for sin.

    Learning about 1st century Jewish culture can be historically interesting, but it is not Who Jesus Is. Some Hebraic study may be beneficial, but it will not lead one to Jesus Christ. Most Hebraic study is based on Rabbinical perspective that does not accept Jesus as Messiah. Therefore, they do not give effective witness to "Hebraic thought" when it comes to NT theology.

    Also, 1st century Israel had already been under the control of the Romans for several hundred years. Much of "Judaism" had been influenced by hellenism and Greek was the common language of the day.

    I think it's important to grasp that studying the Bible is not about "Hebraicness", but that God has given us His Word for all true believers to understand and come to know Him as He truly is. There is no mystery to uncover. Jesus spoke clearly, not in secret.

    Jhn 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

    Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
     
  10. Jer2913

    Jer2913
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    Something I hadn't really done was read the chapter of Isaiah 7, instead I have just been reading Isaiah 7:14.
    When I was reading the whole chapter, I had a hard time understanding how you could tell this was a prophecy of the Messiah. I know that Matthew brought it up saying that the prophecy had been fulfilled, so that would make it clear that that's what the prophecy was talking about. If you didn't read what Matthew or what any of the other gospels said about the prophecy of Immanuel, would it still be plain as day that this prophecy was about the Messiah?

    Thanks for your input!:)
    Jer2913
     
  11. eloidalmanutha

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    In my opinion, that is no longer relevant - the Bible is not OT versus NT - it is the whole counsel of God in perfect balance. Neither is more important - without one, you cannot have the other.
     
  12. mountainrun

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    Immanuel was probably more of a title than a name, like Messiah.

    MR
     

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