Difference Between a Heretic and just a Bad Teacher

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro Tony, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    With all the threads on teachings and personalities in this debate area, I thought it would be good to see what people thought was the difference between a heretic and a bad teacher. It seems there are some who would allow any teaching as long as a person claims to be a Christian, and we should not speak against it. While there are those who would go to the extent of labeling one a heretic and question their salvation.

    What would you consider heretical teaching in comparison to bad teaching that does not rise to the level of heretical. Does the subject of the teaching determine whether it is heretical or not?

    Everyone join in.

    Bro Tony
     
  2. Deacon

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    If the teaching diminishes, disturbs or detracts from the basic (dare I say fundamental) doctrines of the church of Jesus Christ, then IMHO, that would be a heretical teaching.

    Rob
     
  3. Marcia

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    I agree with Deacon. Heretical teaching is denying one or more of the essentials of the faith, which would touch on the nature of God and Christ and salvation.
    Examples:
    Oneness teaching is heretical: Denies the trinity.
    (And this particular teaching was declared a heresy in the 3rd century)

    Denying the Trinity or redefining at as 3 separate Persons (as the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons do)

    Denying the deity of Christ (JW's and many others)

    Denying the finished work (atonement) of Christ on the cross (Word Faith)

    Stating that God has a body (Mormons; also Kenneth Copeland)

    Separating Jesus the person from Christ the Messiah (Some Word-faith teachers; also New Thought churches such as Unity)

    Denying the bodily resurrection of Christ (JW's)

    Denying the Personhood of the Holy Spirit (Mormons)

    These kind of teachings are the most serious attacks on the faith. There are bad teachings that are serious but are not usually considered heresies such as:
    Satan is not a person
    Evolution
    Inclusivism

    Right now, evangelicals are disagreeing as to whether or not Open Theism is a heresy. I think it is because its teachings affect the nature of God as taught in the Bible.

    What about universalism? Who here would consider that a heresy and why?
     
  4. Marcia

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    Another heresy: baptismal regeneration
     
  5. Johnv

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    Difference Between a Heretic and just a Bad Teacher

    Typically, most of us would define these as follows:

    Bad Teachers: When my pastor says something I scripturally disagree with.

    Heretic: When a preacher other than my pastor says something I scripturally disagree with.
     
  6. LadyEagle

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    The Holy Spirit according to the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons)

    Also:

    http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,803-1,00.html

    How is this denying His Personhood?
     
  7. Marcia

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    They call the HS a personage but essentially do not consider the HS a full Person as Christians do. Also, they do deny the Trinity, which I'm sure you know.

    You may also be aware that the Mormons are on a big campaign to sound more Christian so they have changed some of their language to sound that way. They have even made the letters "Jesus Christ" in one place in Salt Lake City bigger than they were in what they had in "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

    I have friends in Mormon ministry and I will ask them about what you posted above to get more info I may not know.
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    Marcia, I fail to understand how they deny the trinity based on what they post on their website.

    Doesn't three members of Godhead equal trinity? :eek:
     
  9. Marcia

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    LE, they believe that God, Jesus, and the HS are 3 separate gods -- I had heard the HS in their view was a god but also a force, but I may be thinking of the JW's. However, I know they deny the Christian view of the Trinity, which is 3 Persons in one Godhead &gt;&gt; LDS view: 3 separate Persons.

    The teaching on the HS is somewhat confusing. I got this response from Christian author Robert Bowman:
     
  10. Marcia

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    LE, are you familiar with the teaching of who the Mormon God is? The Mormon god was once a man and became god. The god of this world (there are other gods of other worlds) has a body and he fathers spirit children in heaven with his wife. Mormons are to have as many children as possible in order to give bodies to these spirit children (that is why they are against birth control and usually abortion).

    All humans on earth are spirit children of "heavenly father" (the Mormon god of this world), as is Jesus, who is our elder brother. Lucifer is also a spirit child of Heavenly Father.
    Therefore, Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers.

    I recently asked Mormon missionaries at my door if God has a body, how could he father spirit children. They did not know how this could be done -- they merely smiled and said "Some things are just mysteries."

    The Mormon God, the Mormon Jesus, and the Mormon HS are not the God, Jesus, and HS of the Bible.
     
  11. Marcia

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    Here is more info:

    A chart showing the Mormon views of God, Jesus, and man vs. the Biblical views:
    http://www.frontiernet.net/~bcmmin/b2.htm

    The Christ of Mormonism (by Bill McKeever who has been in ministry to Mormons for 20 plus yrs.:
    http://www.mrm.org/multimedia/text/the-savior.html

    More articles on McKeever's site:
    http://www.mrm.org/articles/

    "Is Mormonism Christian?"
    http://craom.net/areMormonsChristian.htm

    Chart showing Biblical doctrine vs. Mormon teachings
    http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm

    List of articles on LDS church and beliefs
    http://www.carm.org/mormon.htm
     
  12. Bro Tony

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    Without a doubt this is true. There is no dispute.

    "As we are God once was, as God is we may become"
    Brigham Young

    I cannot believe anyone on this board would defend mormon doctrine. It is polythestic, works based salvation. They believe Jesus as the son is inferior to the Father. They believe God came to Mary and had physical relations with her in order for Jesus to be born. They believe Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. This is just the beginning. Marcia is right they are attempting to sound more orthodox to fit in with mainstream Christianity.

    Apparently, it seems to be working.

    Bro Tony
     
  13. menageriekeeper

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    Umm, why can't God have a body?

    If we are made in the "image and likeness" of God why wouldn't that pertain in a certain measure to a likeness of His body?

    When he walked in the garden with Adam....is that a metaphor? How do you determine this from the context? (Gen 3:8)
     
  14. Johnv

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    Us being made in the "image and likeless" of God referrs to us having a soul. It does not refer to our physical appearance.

    If God looks like me, well, I refuse to believe that God is that poorly designed :eek: [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. Deacon

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    Let's get back on topic.

    Rob
     
  16. Marcia

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    I agree with JohnV. We are in the image of God because we have a sense of morality and ability to conceive of and communicate with God. We have intelligence (sometimes), and will.

    Jesus said in Jn 4.24 that "God is spirit."

    I think God walking in the garden with Adam shows their closeness and relationship -- God was intimately present with Adam and Eve.
     
  17. LadyEagle

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    Who did that, Bro. Tony? C'mon, it's a debate board. [​IMG]
     
  18. Bro Tony

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    My apologies I read what was written wrong. I see the questions are concerning what they have printed about themselves for others consumption. Be careful of propaganda, look to the historical and foundational teachings of the mormon church. None of which can be denied for to do so would be to acknowledge that former "prophets" were wrong.
    Again, sorry for my misreading, glad I never claimed to be infalliable. :cool:

    Bro Tony
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    Heretic is from the Greek "schismatic", that is they give a divisive interpretation of doctrine that is not ORTHODOX (in a straight line)

    Orthodox Christian doctrines include:

    THE SCRIPTURE - Bible is the Only Inspired, Infallible Word of God

    GOD - God is Personal, Not a Force, a Triune Godhead

    JESUS CHRIST - Jesus is God the Creator, the Incarnate, Virgin Born God the Son who Died on the Cross and Rose from the Dead, is in Heaven Now and Will Return to Earth

    HOLY SPIRIT - Third Person of the Godhead at Work Today to Teach and to Indwell

    SIN - Man is by Nature and Action Sinful and cannot Live Up to God's Standard

    REDEMPTION - Through the Blood of Jesus Christ as a Sacrifice for Sin

    SALVATION - by God's Grace Alone, the Act of God on a Sinner's Life

    ETERNITY - Unbelievers will Suffer Eternal Hell while Believers will Enjoy Eternal Heaven

    Now, like it or not, a Roman Catholic believes every one of these and are "orthodox" in the Christian faith. So do Baptists and Lutherans.

    A "bad teacher" confuses what the Bible says about these Orthodox Doctrines. Like teaching salvation by grace (an orthodox doctrine) but that this free grace comes through baptism or tithing or communion of rites of a church.

    A heretic does not believe or teach one or more of these orthodox beliefs. (Like the JW or LDS in the discussion above)
     
  20. Pastor J

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    Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

    Anything contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture is heresy. Catholics are heretics because they teach a works salvation. Mormoms, JW's and anyone who teaches contrary to God's Word is a heretic. Simple as that.
     

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