Difference between the family, kingdom and church of God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    Eph. 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

    1 Cor. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    1 Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,

    1. First, there is a difference of terminology and meaning:

    a."family" - Greek "patria" - those fathered - lineage
    b. "kingdom" - Greek "Basilea" - the rule and realm of a the Person of a king
    c. "church" - Greek "ekklesia" - congregation, assembly


    2. Second, there is a difference in relationship to God

    a. "family" - relationship is defined as "children"
    b. "kingdom" relationship is defined as "citizens"
    c.. "church" - relationship is defined as "members"


    3. Third, there is a difference in size

    a. "family" includes all saints in heaven and presently on earth - Eph. 3:15
    b. "kingdom" - includes all saints presently on earth at any given time - Mt. 13
    c. "church" - includes baptized believers gathered out of God's kingdom on earth - Acts 2:40


    4. Fourth, there is a difference in entrance

    a. "family" is by birth "born" a child of God - I Jn. 3:18
    b. "kingdom" is by translation - Col. 1:13
    c. "church" is by baptism - Acts 2:40


    5. Fifth, there is a difference in origin

    a. "family" began with first child of God - Genesis 3:15
    b. "kingdom" began with first translated out of Satan's domain - Gen. 3:15
    c. "church" began with first "apostles" - 1 Cor. 12:28


    6. Sixth, there is a difference in internal relationships

    a. "family" persons can exist outside of the church - 1 Cor. 5:11; 2 Thes. 3:6; Acts10:43
    b. "kingdom" persons can exist outside of the church - Acts 10:43; 2 Thes. 3:6
    c. "church" persons can be removed from the church but not the family or kingdom by discipline - 1 Cor. 5:11; 2 Thes. 3:6


    7. Seventh, there is a difference in location

    a. "family" persons are located in heaven and on earth - Eph. 3:15
    b. "kingdom" persons are located throughout the world - Mt. 13 "the field is the world"
    c. "church" located at a geograhical spot - 1 Cor. 1:2 "The church of God WHICH IS AT Corinth"


    8. Eighth, there is a difference in final place

    a. "family" persons will live outside the New Jerusalem on new earth - Rev. 21:24 and be guests at wedding - Rev. 19:8-9
    b. "kingdom" person will live outside of New Jerusalem on new earth - Rev. 21:24 and be guest at wedding - Rev. 19:8-9
    c. "church" is the bride living inside the city and is not the guest at the wedding


    9. Ninth, there is a difference in relationship to the gospel and salvation

    a. "family" persons are all saved by the same gospel, same way , same savior immediately upon new birth
    b. "kingdom" persons are those in the family presently on earth
    c. "church" persons have been previously born into the family and made citizens of the kingdom by salvation BEFORE they can be received into the church membership by profession of faith and water baptism.

    When all of these distinctive factors are considered together it is self-evident they are not synonomous terms.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2012
  2. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    All who have trusted Christ as Lord and Savior have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    One becomes a member of the body of Christ by trusting Him, not by getting water baptized.

    If it were water baptism that brought one into the body of Christ, then many who have never trusted Him but were baptized are members of His body. A very dangerous and deceptive doctrine, for sure.

    The quadriplegic who trusts Christ, or the man on his deathbed who trusts Christ, is just as much a member of His body as a member of a local sanctuary who trusted Christ 30 years ago and was baptized. That man on his deathbed is promised to be with the Lord in paradise too. The quadriplegic who would drown if one tried to baptize him is a member of Christ's body if he trusts Christ... regardless the fact that he has not had a water baptism. Both the man on his deathbed and the quadriplegic are members of the one true Church, the body of Christ, because they trusted Christ.

    Faith is the key. Faith puts the believer 'in Him' and He in the believer.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52

    ALL who are members of the Church of Christ are saved by God

    NOT all who membership in the local church are!

    faith in jesus key to going into THE Church, seal of the Spirit the sign in it
    water baptism sign of into local church!
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    QU

    Your reasoning is based upon the premise that "church" EQUALS salvation which is the Roman Catholic premise.

    The "church" has NOTHING to do with salvation at all. Salvation preceded the church as the first members of the church were apostles (1 Cor. 12:28) but the first person saved was in Genesis - Acts 10:43.


    Again, your premise is wrong! You equate the METAPHORICAL "body of Christ" to be synonomous with salvation and IT IS NOT!

    The church is a New Testament "mystery" but salvation is an Old Testament truth.

    ALL the elect were chosen "IN HIM" before the foundation of the world not merely Pentcostal saints forward - Eph. 1:4; 2 Thes. 2:13.

    THERE IS NO SALVAION outside of Christ!!!!!!!

    They are as much a part of God's FAMILY and KINGDOM as is a saved member in the congregational body - 1 Cor. 12:27 but they are not a member of the body of Christ unless they are received into that body upon the profession of faith and baptism - NOTE "YE" not "WE" in 1 Cor. 12:27. "YE are THE BODY of Christ and MEMBERS IN PARTICULAR"

    Amen! gospel saving faith preceded the church body of Christ - Acts 10:43

    Regneration is what UNITES the beiever with Christ and regeneration preceded Pentecost - Jn. 3:1-9!!!! Spiritual union is by regneration not by membership in his METAPHORICAL body, which is a geographical located congregational body.

    You are espousing Roman Catholic ecclessiology and just don't realize it.
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2012
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    Go look at the NINE distinction I place in the OP and you will see that church members are saved PRIOR to membership in the congregational body and thus already in the family of God and citizens of the kingdom of God before they are baptized in water into membership of the congregation of God. Or doesn't your church require PRIOR salvation experience and new birth before baptism into the membership of your body? What do you require for baptism?
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    Go look at the NINE distinction I place in the OP and you will see that church members are saved PRIOR to membership in the congregational body and thus already in the family of God and citizens of the kingdom of God before they are baptized in water into membership of the congregation of God. Or doesn't your church require PRIOR salvation experience and new birth before baptism into the membership of your body? What do you require for baptism?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    profession of faith in jesus as lord and saviour, and have a formal sit down with either pastors or Elders to go over what that means to one, and a church class of "this is what we believe and how we do things here!"

    And once meet the above, be water baptism if not done already by immersion!
     
  8. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    What our Church requires for one to be water baptized is that that one seeking water baptism profess a faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing more, nothing less.

    We do not require that one be water baptized in order to join the local assembly. I do not believe such a requirement is scriptural.
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    The baptism in Matthew 28:19 is the kind that people "ye" can administer to "them" and it precedes teaching them to observe all things. That requires baptism as prerequisitie to "TEACHING THEM to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded" which church membership is. The command to teach "them" refers to the previously mentioned BAPTIZED! That restricts church membership to the baptized.

    Acts 2:41 follows this same Great Commission Pattern - baptism as the prerequisite to church membership.

    Can you find anyone in the New Testament that was not baptized upon profession of faith and/or was received into church membership unbaptized?
     
    #9 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2012
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    So you require a profession of salvation before church membership! So you require immersion in water as the prerequisite for church membership!

    That is precisely what I said and what all nine points in my OP demand.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    water baptism by Immersion to a professing Christian appears to be the outward sign that made that person being member in local chuerch...
     
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    No! Baptism is the outward sign of the gospel - public identification with Christ in his death burial and resurrection - Rom. 6:4-5.

    It is also a public sign that identifies him with the DOCTRINE and PRACTICE of Christ as it is required as the prerequisite for TEACHING THEM to observe all things whatosever Christ commanded.

    The Administrator must be a disciple of like faith and order with Christ in the all things as that is the only one authorized to administer baptism in the great commission. Indeed, no other kind of baptismal administrator can be found in scripture other than one of like faith and order with Christ.

    For example, if you were saved and you chose to go to a Presbyterian minsiter to be sprinkled and you invited all your friends to come and watch. After the Presbyterian minister sprinkled you would you friends conclude, "Thank God he is now a Baptist"??????

    The Great Commission restricts the administration of baptism to a church of like faith and order with Christ.

    Can you find any other kind of administrator of baptism in the scriptures? Find one that was not like faith and order with Christ!
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    EIGHT COMMON SENSE REASONS
    Why
    The Universal Invisible Church theory
    Is a False Doctrine​

    1. It’s theory contradicts its practice

    This doctrine is commonly preached and taught to be the Biblical basis for UNIFYING God’s people in actual practice. However, in reality, even though it is common that several churches embracing this doctrine are to be found in almost every city throughout this country, and yet not once, has this theory ever been able to bring such churches together as one church body/denomination even though they exist sometimes only blocks or a few miles apart. It simply does not work.
    Surely if it were Biblical and if it were true, then somewhere at some time, it would achieve practical unity at least between the churches embracing that theory, which only exist within walking distance from each other in the same cities?????? In truth and in reality, it is a false doctrine that promotes only division not unity.


    2. It promotes division and confusion rather than unity

    Without this doctrine there would have been no basis for the excommunicated Reformers (Luther, Calvin, etc.) to respectfully call themselves churches of Christ. They would have remained simply excommunicated Roman Catholics or have had to come over to the dreaded and hated Anabaptists. This doctrine gave them a way to separate from Rome and from each other and has been the basis for countless numbers of such separations until this very day. Indeed, it is reported that there are now over 37,000 different Christian denominations in the world and five new ones are formed each week. This doctrine is the ONLY basis used for justifying the existence of each new one and thus creating further division and confusion. The character of this doctrine is seen in its only fruit – further division and disunity within Christendom. Its fruit manifests it to be a false doctrine.


    3. It’s Advocates cannot agree on its membership

    Its advocates cannot agree among themselves who is included in this kind of church. Dispensational Universal Invisible advocates deny that all the saints living before Pentecost are in this church. Amazingly the distinguishing factor according to this theory is that all saints after Pentecost to the Rapture are “in Christ” and those previous to Pentecost are not “in Christ” and therefore the very gospel is attacked demanding there is another salvation OUTSIDE of Christ.
    Non-dispensational Universal Invisible advocates include all the elect in all ages but then contradict themselves by interpreting I Corinthians 12:13 as “Spirit baptism” which they also demand is the means to enter into their kind of church, when in fact, the baptism in the Spirit had no previous existence before the day of Pentecost. They have the problem of explaining how those saints living before Pentecost could enter into this kind of church one way and those after Pentecost another way???? One false doctrine can only lead and demand more false doctrines.


    4. It includes what God commands local churches to exclude

    New Testament churches are commanded to separate from any “brother” who walks disorderly (2 Thes. 3:6) or who lives in openly known sin (I Cor. 5:11) and have no fellowship with such (2 Thes. 3:14). New Testament churches are commanded to mark and avoid heretics (Rom. 16:17). However, what many refer to as the so-called “true” church embraces the very ones that New Testament Churches are commanded to separate, mark and avoid. Yet, the advocates of the universal invisible church theory claim that the local church is the visible expression of it!!
    New Testament churches don’t receive into their membership unbaptized persons. However, the so-called “true” church receives unbaptized, sprinkled, poured or immersed persons into its membership. Yet its advocates claim that local churches are the visible expression of the universal invisible church!
    This theory makes God the author of confusion. According to this theory what God demands for membership in the visible expression (local church) is not expressed in the membership requirements of the Universal invisible church. Only a false doctrine would demand such interpretations.


    5. It can’t be found in Church History before the Reformation

    If the so-called Universal Invisible Church is Biblical, then, why can’t it be found prior to the Reformation Period?????? Why is the very first recorded discussion on the nature of the church just a few hundred years after the Apostles completely silent about this doctrine? Nearly 900 preachers from all over the known world convened to discuss the true nature of the church and the idea of a universal invisible church never surfaced among them! It was the council of Nicaea in 425 A.D. consisting of over 400 Donatist Anabaptists and over 400 churches that ultimately became the Roman Catholic Church.
    Augustine led the debate for the Catholic and tried to introduce a new concept called the Universal VISIBLE church while the Donatists rejected it and accused him of teaching two different kinds of churches, one that was local and visible and another that was universal and visible. In the Reformation the Anabaptist accused Luther of the very same thing when he introduced the “Universal INVISIBLE church” theory. If this theory is Biblical then why didn’t those closest to the time of the New Testament teach it? Why did the Donatists accuse Augustine of teaching TWO KINDS of churches if there were already two kinds of churches (one visible another invisible)?????? Why? The answer is simple. It is because it is a false doctrine invented by the Reformers 1500 years after the writing of the New Testament.


    6. It Perverts the Historical Biblical Context

    During the New Testament period, all churches were like faith and order with one another and jointly referred to as “the churches of Christ.” The contextual “we” found in New Testament epistles were united in the same faith and practice within the same kind of churches. Therefore, it is a perversion of the historical and Biblical context to define or interpret the contextual “we” in these epistles as Christians divided into contradicting denominations. This is especially true since the contextual “we” found in these epistles are explicitly commanded to avoid, have no fellowship with, but place under discipline such brethren who establish another kind of faith and order or conflicting and competing denominations (2 Thes. 3:6,14; I Cor. 5:6-13; Rom. 16:17).
    Therefore, in the context of the body of Christ and the churches of Christ, the contextual “we” at the very minimum refers to Christians who were like faith and order existing in the same kind of churches or what today we would call the same “denomination” of churches. Yet, the universal invisible church advocates rip the pronoun “we” out of its historical context and make it apply to a post-New Testament era of professed Christians existing within conflicting denominations as well as inclusive of those who have no kind of church affiliation whatsoever. The truth is that the contextual “we” refer to all Christians who are members of the same kind of church, holding the same faith and order. The so-called universal invisible church theory is simply Satan’s tool to justify those who have departed from the faith.


    7. It robs the New Testament Churches of any abstract Instruction

    It is common for a Pastor to make the statement, “This morning I will be preaching on the church and its ordinances.” He didn’t say what particular church or what particular ordinances but it is a common abstract statement that is commonly understood to mean the kind of church and ordinances practiced by that very Pastor and church. Most admit that the epistles written by the apostle Paul were circular letters intended to be passed from church to church (Col. 4:16) for common edification of all the churches since he was imprisoned and unable to return and build up each church. His letters are full of abstract language for teaching about “the servant” and “the wife” and “the husband” and “the laborer” and “the old man” and “the new man” and “the body” and “the church” and the list goes on. Such is common abstract language intended to instruct the particular person or church that reads it.
    Yet, every passage where this same abstract use of language occurs, it is robbed from New Testament churches and applied to something that cannot possibly make any kind of application of practical unity between its membership or practical assembling of its membership. Instead it justifies practical division and separation.


    8. It promotes irresponsibility and disobedience to God’s Word

    The Great Commission is about making “disciples” and that very term necessarily includes discipline in New Testament faith and practice. The local visible church is placed in authority over its membership for instructive, corrective and if necessary purgative discipline (Mt. 18:15-18; I Cor. 5; 2 Thes. 3:6). However, the doctrine of the Universal Invisible Church completely invalidates any kind of church discipline whether it is instructive, corrective or purgative. The disciplined person simply tells the church, “I belong to the TRUE church and I can worship God upon the hill or at my home or go to another church of “my” choice.” Such a person will leave and will either join some church that promotes their sin or they will meet in their home and start a new denomination to promote their sins. Yet, they will leave and justify their departure on the boast they belong to the “TRUE” Church that requires no accountability to anyone and in reality promotes disobedience to Christ. This doctrine is the safe haven for all kinds of apostasy under the guise of the “true” church of Christ.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    Just something to mull over here!

    Ten items that the Scriptures speak of the universal church (from Mark Copeland)

    a. Composed of all Christians
    b. There is just one
    c. Began on the Day of Pentecost
    d. Enter only by being added by the Lord
    e. The Lord keeps the books of membership
    f. Consists of all the saved
    g. Must be in this to be saved
    h. Has no earthly organization
    i. Can't be divided
    j. Death doesn't affect membership


    John 15:2 (NKJV)
    2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

    Acts 11:15 (NKJV)
    15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.
    [In reference to ANOTHER congregation being formed.]

    Acts 2:47 (NKJV)
    47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

    Romans 11:19–22 (NKJV)
    19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore ...

    Ephesians 1:22–23 (NKJV)
    22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

    Ephesians 2:19–22 (NKJV)
    19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief ...

    Ephesians 4:4 (NKJV)
    4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;

    Ephesians 5:23 (NKJV)
    23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

    Ephesians 5:25–27 (NKJV)
    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle ...

    1 Thessalonians 5:10 (NKJV)
    10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

    2 Timothy 2:19 (NKJV)
    19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

    Hebrews 12:22–24 (NKJV)
    22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just ...

    1 Peter 2:5 (NKJV)
    5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    4,319
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree. I know you don't care, but, nevertheless, I do agree with you on this.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    We hold to a water baptism as valid to meeting membership requirements IF:

    person made a profession of faith, saved by grace of God already

    that it was done by a person duly athorized by their spiritual authorites

    Done as immersion...

    Does NOT have to be a Baptist that did it, just as long as a church holding to essentials of the faith, immersion, as mine was done by Assemblies of God minister and seen as valid!
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    QU

    First the church did not begin on Pentecost and there is not a single scripture in the New Testament that even implies it did.

    1. It was "added" to on Pentecost - Acts 2:40

    2. It had been assembling since the baptism of John - Acts 1:21-22

    3. The first officers were "set in" the church in Mark 3:12-13; Lk. 6:12-14 - 1 Cor. 12:28

    4. It's first business meeting was conducted before Pentecost to replace a church office - Acts 1:15-2:1.

    5. It was given both ordinances prior to Pentecost (Jn. 4:1; Mt. 26:30).


    Second, it does not consist of all the saved UNLESS your believe all the saints prior to Pentcost are LOST?


    Third, "must be in it to be saved" is a flat denial that anyone was saved prior to Pentecost.





    Abraham was "in Christ" by faith - Gal. 3:17 and believed in the same gospel and justified by faith - Rom. 4:1-3; Gal. 3:6-8.

    Here is absolute proof that the baptism in the Spirit did not occur with every experience of salvation. The nearest reference point that Peter could identify with the baptism in the Spirit (v. 16) was "AT the beginning" or Pentecost. However, 5,000 were saved later and then the numbers "multiplied" as people were being saved daily.

    Luke explains how God "added" to the church in Acts 2:40-41 and instead of repeating the same thing over and over he sums it up with the phrase "added" to the Church and then later when the numbers were too great to add up he says "multiplied." Your interpretation infers that God added to the church differently than previously explained in Acts 2:40-41.

    The term "church" cannot be found in Romans 9-11 because the "church" is not the subject. Paul is speaking of the professing kingdom of God which was represented by an Olive tree in the Old Testament when Israel was the professing kingdom of God. Now the professing kingdom of God has been moved from Israel as a nation to the Gentile NATIONS. Your interpretation demands those once saved can be broken off and then grafted in again, thus you are teaching "another gospel" of salvation and loss of salvation and regain salvation which Hebrews 4:6 says is impossible.

    The term "head" refers to AUTHORITY in this context not spiritual union. If being the "head" of the church means spiritual union then you must believe and teach panthesism as well because he is as much "head" over the church here as he is "all things."

    He is denying that the New Testament institutional house of God has a "middle wall of partition" as did the Old Testament house of God where believing Gentiles were not allowed to worship God or serve equally with Jews. In the New Testament congregations they are on equal standing. Note the indefinite article "a" and "an" when describing the "temple" and house of God.

    There is "one body" - one in kind like the one found at Corinth (1 Cor. 12:27 "YE are the body of Christ" and one in number in regard to the readers of this epistles as each person reading it belonged to one such assembly.

    The context is sanctification and specifically submission and the words "AS" demonstrates an identical comparison with the husband and wife in regard to authority or being the "head" versus submission. The definite article is used with "the wife" without any specified particular "wife"! Does this mean Paul is referring to a Unversal Invisible wife? He is talking about the positions of authority and submission in relationship between a husband and wife as between the local assembly and Christ. The husband is the "head" of the wife. Does that mean the wife has no literal head on her shoulders but the husband's head has been transplanted on her body????

    Again, it is PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION of the congregation that is being addressed as it is set apart by the Word of God. Not salvation.

    Oh, so nobody saved before Pentecost will be in the resurrection? Oh, so nobody saved before Pentecost goes to heaven at the time when 1 Thessalonians was written long after Pentecost?????????

    Oh, the Lord neither knows or saved those before Pentecost and no one named the name of Christ (Heb. "messiah") before Pentecost - Acts 10:43??????

    The names are written in heaven but the members were still on earth. When they assemble on earth they come before heaven just as the Israelites assembled at Mount Sinai on earth but came before God, angels and heaven (1 Cor. 11:10; Eph. 3:10; etc.).

    This is the description of every New Testament congregation by definition (1 Cor. 3:16) when they PUBLICLY assemble they offer up "spiritual sacrfices ACCEPTABLE to God" whereas that is not the case with false assemblies even though Christians may be in their midst as their gospel and ordinances are perverted sacrifices before God - Rev. 18:4.
     
  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    The Roman Catholic Doctrine of no salvation outside the Church is the basis for the Protestant doctrine of the Universal invisible Church theory:

    "Outside the Church there is no salvation"

    846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His Body:

    Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it
    . - Catholic Church Catechism, 2nd Ed. p. 224

    The concept of church salvation originates with Rome not the Scriptures. Salvation has always been by faith in the gospel of Christ and never by membership in ANY KIND OF CHURCH visible, universal visible or universal invisible. - Acts 10:43/Heb. 4:2/ Gal. 3:17

    Spirtual union with God is by regeneration not by church membership or baptism.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52

    It is the act of the Holy spirit, who at the time of conversion, places that new saint into the Bride/Body of Christ, via spitiual baptism, and water baptism eflects that already done fact!
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Every local church is a body of Christ. See 1Cor.11.
    Even history speaks against you. Can you name any denomination throughout history that hasn't used baptism as an entrance into the local church. Virtually every church or denomination has that practice. Even history attests to the validity of the practice.

    You go against the Bible.
    Every saved person in the Bible was baptized by water. Can you give an example that wasn't? What does hinder me from being baptized? said the Ethiopian Eunuch. And upon the confession of his faith he was baptized. Note that it was not upon the confession of his spirit baptism, or the fact that the Holy Spirit had baptized him. All that was nonsense to new believers.
    The command was to believe and be baptized (by water baptism) and be added to the church.
     

Share This Page

Loading...