differences between 1560 Geneva and 1599 Geneva

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Logos1560, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    As many may know, there was more than one edition of the Geneva Bible. Laurence Tomson (1539-1608) edited an edition of the New Testament in 1576 that was printed in a number of Geneva Bibles after that time. The edition commonly reprinted as the 1599 Geneva Bible today has the text of Tomson's 1576 revision or edition. One of the reported characteristics of Tomson's edition was his use of "that" in several verses for "the," said to be from the influence of Beza. The KJV kept two or three of Tomson's uses of "that."

    By the way, there is said to have been several different editions of the Geneva Bible with the date 1599 printed in them. Some of them were printed after 1599 in the Netherlands with a false date and some with a place place of printing [London] perhaps in an attempt to keep the buyers of them from getting in trouble with Archbishop Laud.

    Of what differences between these two Geneva Bible editions are you aware? Below are the ones that I know of, and I would be interesting in learning of any others that others may have noticed.


    Matthew 26:26
    given thanks (1560)
    blessed (1599)

    Luke 17:36
    this verse was not in 1560 Geneva, but was in 1599 Geneva. The 1560 Geneva Bible has a verse numbered 36, but it is the verse numbered 37 in the KJV.

    John 1:1
    the Word was with God (1560)
    that Word was with God (1599)

    John 1:4
    the life was (1560)
    that life was (1599)

    John 1:5
    And the light shineth (1560)
    And that light shineth (1599)

    John 1:12
    power (1560)
    prerogative (1576, 1599)

    John 1:15
    is preferred before me: for he was before me (1560)
    was before me: for he was better than I (1599)

    John 1:21
    Art thou the Prophet? (1560)
    Art thou that Prophet? (1599)

    John 6:48
    I am the bread of life (1560)
    I am that bread of life (1599)

    John 14:1
    And he said to his disciples (1560)
    These words added at the beginning of the verse in 1560 edition are not found in the 1599 edition.

    Rom. 13:3
    princes (1560)
    magistrates (1576, 1599)

    1 Cor. 6:7
    Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you (1560)
    Now there there is altogether infirmity in you (1599)
     
  2. Jerome

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    Geneva1560
    Geneva1599



    Matthew 26:26
    giuen thankes
    giuen thankes

    Luke 17
    v. 36 language is in the margin
    v. 36 is v. 36 in main text

    John 1:1
    the Worde was with God
    the Worde was with God

    John 1:4
    the life was
    the life was

    John 1:5
    And the light shineth
    And the light shineth

    John 1:12
    power
    power

    John 1:15
    is preferred before me: for he was before me
    is preferred before me: for he was before me

    John 1:21
    Art thou the Prophet?
    Art thou the Prophet?

    John 6:48
    I am the bread of life
    I am the bread of life

    John 14:1
    And he said to his disciples
    And hee sayde to his disciples

    Rom. 13:3
    princes
    Princes

    1 Cor. 6:7
    Now therefore there is vtterly a faute among you
    Now therefore there is vtterly a fault among you
     
  3. Jerome

    Jerome
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  4. Thermodynamics

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    Very interesting post, I did not know that.
     
  5. Thermodynamics

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    I have been wanting one of the 1560 Geneva reprints for a while, but I am not crazy about the modern typeface used in the 1599 editions that I have seen.
     
  6. Logos1560

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    Which edition of the Geneva Bible are you using as the 1599 edition? One collector claimed to have collected ten different editions with some differences that were dated 1599. It may be that some of the editions printed with the 1599 date in the Netherlands were actually based on the 1560 edition of the Geneva Bible instead of the 1576 revision by Tomson. Some of the differences I listed and found were identified by other sources as being differences between the 1560 edition and the 1576 Tomson's printed in many later editions of the Geneva Bible.

    The 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible that I was using is the "facsimile of the 1599 edition" printed by the Geneva Publishing Company in 1991. I updated the spelling in my examples to be like the spelling in the KJV. The differences I listed are also found in the modern spelling edition of the 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible printed by Tolle Lege Press.
     
  7. Logos1560

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    Thanks for the O. T. examples

    Histories of the English Bible and other sources generally maintain that the edition of the Old Testament in the 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible is the same as the edition of the Old Testament in the 1560 edition. According to your examples, it seems that claim or assumption may be inaccurate. It appears that Tomson or at least someone introduced some changes into the Old Testament of the 1560 Geneva Bible in later editions.

    I found your O. T. examples in my 1599 edition except for the Genesis 1:10 example. Both my 1599 editions have "dry land" at Genesis 1:10 where the 1560 has "drye land."
     
  8. Jerome

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    Here is the Geneva1599 (London) I referenced.
    Here is the Geneva1599 (Amsterdam) that reads exactly like what you found in the Geneva Publishing Company and Tolle Lege Press editions.
     
    #8 Jerome, Feb 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2009
  9. Mexdeaf

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    Hmmm, makes me wonder how the GBOnlyists handled those facts.:laugh:
     
  10. Logos1560

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    Evidently, the Geneva edition dated London, 1599, that you referenced was based on the text of the 1560 or likely a later Geneva edition, but not the one with the 1576 edition edited by Laurence Tomson. It could possibly have also been printed in Amsterdam or the Netherlands since some Geneva Bibles were printed there after 1599 with a false title page indicating they were printed in London in 1599. These editions were likely printed in the late 1630's and in the 1640's after Archbishop Laud made the importing of the Geneva Bible a High Commission crime.
     
  11. Jerome

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    Yes.
    No, it is the authentic 1599 London edition (STC 2173).
    The only authentic 1599 Geneva is STC 2173
    The spuriously dated 1599 editions of the Geneva Bible were all Geneva-Tomson-Junius combinations

    Reprinters and e-text publishers do a disservice when they inaccurately label their work.

    What you want to discuss are differences between Geneva1560 and GenevaTomson, right?
     
  12. Logos1560

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    Yes.
    The 1560 edition of the Geneva Bible and the later Geneva editions that included Tomson's 1576 N. T. [usually identified as the 1599 edition] seem to be the two editions of the Geneva Bible that have been reprinted and that are more commonly available in this day.
     
  13. Jerome

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    The "Geneva 1599" reprint editions are actually reprints of later editions with false "1599" title pages.

    Biblical References in Shakespeare's Plays p. 542
    "All but one of one (STC 2173) of these ["Geneva 1599"] editions were actually published after 1599 on the Continent, in Amsterdam and Dort, although their title pages declare them to have been published in London in 1599."
     
    #13 Jerome, Feb 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2009
  14. Jerome

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    Geneva1560
    GenevaTomson1587 (first Geneva Bible with Tomson NT)

    Matthew 1:19
    take Marie for thy wife
    take Mary thy wife

    Matthew 1:22
    was spoken
    is spoken

    Matthew 2:2
    the King
    that King

    Matthew 2:11
    incense
    frankincense

    Matthew 2:15
    that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken
    that that might be fulfilled, which is spoken

    Matthew 2:17
    which was spoken
    which is spoken

    Matthew 2:18
    lamentation
    howling

    Matthew 3:9
    able of these stones
    able even of these stones

    Matthew 3:14
    John put him backe
    John earnestly put him backe

    Matthew 4:12
    delivered vp
    committed to prison

    Matthew 4:24
    gripings
    torments

    Matthew 5:11
    Blessed are ye
    Blessed shall ye be

    Matthew 5:31
    testimonial
    bill

    Matthew 5:43
    hate thine enemie
    hate your enemie

    Matthew 6:28
    they labour not
    they are not wearied

    Matthew 8:32
    was caryed with vioence from a stiepe downe place
    ranne headlong

    Matthew 9:2
    lying
    laid

    Matthew 9:9
    the receite of custome
    the custome

    Matthew 9:22
    at that houre
    at that same moment

    Matthew 9:30
    charged them
    gave them great charge

    Matthew 10:23
    finish
    goe ouer

    Matthew 10:39
    save
    finde
     
  15. Jerome

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    Geneva1560
    NTTomson1576
    GenevaTomson1587

    Matthew 1:20
    take Marie for thy wife
    take Marie thy wife
    take Mary thy wife

    Matthew 2:18
    mourning, and weping and great lamentation
    mourning, and weeping, and great lamentation
    mourning, and weeping, and great howling

    Matthew 5:43
    hate thine enemie
    hate thine enimie
    hate your enemie

    Matthew 9:22
    at that houre
    in that same moment
    at that same moment
     
    #15 Jerome, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2009
  16. Logos1560

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    Thanks, Jerome, for the additional examples. I checked them in my 1560 facsimile reprint and my 1599 facsimile reprint, and the claimed 1599 reprint followed the 1576 Tomson in most of them, except Matthew 2:2 and Matthew 5:43. I compared a few verses in another chapter and found these differences.

    Matthew 12:4
    How he entered (1560)
    How he went (1599)

    Matthew 12:11
    will not he take it (1560)
    doth not take it (1599)

    Matthew 12:16
    And charged them (1560)
    And charged them in threatning wise (1599)
     
  17. Jerome

    Jerome
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    Geneva1560
    NTTomson1576
    GenevaTomson1587, if different than NTTomson1576

    Matthew 11:4
    haue heard and sene
    heare, and see

    Matthew 11:14
    Elias
    that Elias

    Matthew 11:25
    babes
    the children
    babes

    Matthew 12:4
    How he entred into the House of God, & ate
    How he entred into the house of God, & did eate

    Matthew 12:11
    shal haue a shepe
    hath a shepe

    Matthew 12:11
    wil not he take it
    doth not take it

    Matthew 12:16
    And charged them
    And charged then in threatning wise

    Matthew 12:25
    shalbe broght
    is brought

    Matthew 12:39
    the Prophet Ionas
    that Prophet Ionas
    the Prophet Ionas

    Matthew 13:4
    by the wayes side
    in the way
    by the way side

    Matthew 13:6
    sunne rose vp
    sunne was vp

    Matthew 13:19
    a man
    any man

    Matthew 13:19
    the kingdome
    that kingdome

    Matthew 13:19
    the euil one
    that euil one

    Matthew 13:28
    The enuious man
    Some enuious man

    Matthew 13:36
    the field
    that field

    Matthew 13:38
    the good sede, they are
    the good sede are

    Matthew 13:38
    the wicked
    that wicked one

    Metthew 14:1
    the Tetrarche
    that Tetrarche
    the Tetrarche

    Matthew 14:2
    John Baptist
    that John Baptist

    Matthew 14:12
    his bodie
    the body

    Matthew 14:13
    a fote
    on foote

    Matthew 14:15
    houre
    tyme

    Matthew 15:6
    autoritie
    effect
    aucthoritie

    Matthew 15:21
    coasts
    partes
    coastes

    Matthew 15:29
    came nere unto the sea
    came unto the sea
    came neere vnto the sea
     
  18. Jerome

    Jerome
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    Geneva1560
    NTTomson1576
    GenevaTomson1587, if different than NTTomson1576

    Matthew 16:4
    and there shal
    but there shall

    Matthew 16:4
    but the signe
    but that signe

    Matthew 16:7
    thoght
    reasoned

    Matthew 16:8
    thinke
    reason

    Matthew 16:16
    the Christ
    that Christ

    Matthew 16:20
    the Christ
    that Christ

    Matthew 17:5
    This is my beloued Sonne
    This is that my beloued Sonne

    Matthew 17:14
    kneled downe to him
    fel downe at his feete

    Matthew 17:22
    abode
    being

    Matthew 17:24
    tribute
    polle money

    Matthew 18:5
    suche a litle childe
    one such litle childe

    Matthew 18:17
    wil not vouchsaue
    refuse

    Matthew 18:23
    a countes
    an account

    Matthew 18:24
    ought
    owed
    ought

    Matthew 18:25
    master
    Lord

    Matthew 18:26
    besought him, saying, Master, appease thine angre towarde me
    worshipped him, saying, Lord refraine thine anger towards me
    worshipped him, saying, Lorde, refraine thine anger toward me

    Matthew 18:27
    master
    Lord

    Matthew 18:28
    his felowes, which ought him
    his fellow seruants, which owed him
    his felow seruants, which ought him

    Matthew 18:28
    toke him by the throte
    thratled him

    Matthew 18:29
    felow
    fellowe seruant

    Matthew 18:29
    Appease
    Refraine

    Matthew 18:31
    felowes
    fellow seruants

    Matthew 18:31
    master
    Lord

    Matthew 18:32
    master called him
    Lord called him vnto him

    Matthew 18:33
    felow
    fellow seruant

    Matthew 18:34
    master
    Lord

    Matthew 18:34
    iaylers
    tormentours

    Matthew 19:1
    those
    these

    Matthew 19:3
    for euerie faute
    vpon euerie occasion

    Matthew 19:5
    twaine
    which were two

    Matthew 19:12
    chaste
    eunuches

    Matthew 19:12
    made chaste
    gelded

    Matthew 20:25
    domination
    rule
    domination
     
  19. Rippon

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    I take it nobody like Paris or Blayney ever revised the Geneva.
     
  20. Logos1560

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    Is it known which of these editions of the Geneva Bible that the KJV translators consulted as the standard or accepted edition of the Geneva Bible? Did the KJV translators perhaps make use of both of these editions?
     

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