Differences in EETs: The Abuse of Christ

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by franklinmonroe, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    Notice John 19:3 (with their hands or with rods)? Where did they strike Him (in the face or we don't know)? --
    And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands. (KJV)

    And sayde, Hayle king of the Iewes: And they stroke hym with roddes (Bishops)

    And saide, Haile, King of the Iewes; they smote him with their roddes. (Geneva)

    and sayde: Hayle kynge of the Iewes. And they smote him on the face. (Coverdale)

    and sayd: hayll kynge of the Iewes: and they smote him on the face. (Tyndale)

    and camen to him, and seiden, Heil, kyng of Jewis. And thei yauen to him buffatis. (Wycliffe)​

    Here the Bishops and Geneva agree that the guards used "roddes", (the KJV does not mention "the palms" in the above pericope).

    Now, notice John 18:22. What happened at the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus? --
    And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so? (KJV)

    When he had thus spoken, one of the officers whiche stoode by, smote Iesus [with a rod] saying: Aunswerest thou the hye priest so? (Bishops)

    When he had spoken these thinges, one of the officers which stoode by, smote Iesus with his rod, saying, Answerest thou the hie Priest so? (Geneva)

    But whan he had thus spoke, one of the officers that stode by, smote Iesus on the face, and sayde: Answerest thou the hye prest so? (Coverdale)

    Whe he had thus spoken one of ye ministres which stode by smote Iesus on the face sayinge: answerest thou the hyepreste so? (Tyndale)

    Whanne he hadde seid these thingis, oon of the mynystris stondynge niy, yaf a buffat to Jhesu, and seide, Answerist thou so to the bischop? (Wycliffe)​

    Buffet ("buffat" or "boffet") means a blow or cuff with with the hand.

    Now, Mark 14:65 where again Coverdale and Tyndale agree that the blows were to the face, and only the KJV implies that they slapped Christ --
    And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands. (KJV)

    And some began to spyt at hym, and to couer his face, and to beate hym with fistes, and to say vnto hym, prophecie. And the seruauntes dyd beate hym with roddes. (Bishops)

    And some began to spit at him, and to couer his face, and to beate him with fists, and to say vnto him, Prophesie; the sergeants smote him with their roddes. (Geneva)

    Then beganne there some to spyt vpo him, and to couer his face, and to smyte him with fistes, and to saye vnto him Prophecie vnto vs. And the seruauntes smote him on the face. (Coverdale)

    And some begane to spit at him and to cover his face and to bete him with fistes and to saye vnto him arede vnto vs. And the servauntes boffeted him on the face. (Tyndale)

    And summe bigunnen to bispete hym, `and to hile his face, and to smite hym with buffetis, and seie to hym, Areede thou. And the mynystris beeten hym with strokis (Wycliffe)​

    The three passages above are translations of rhapisma (Strong's #4475) which means: 1) to smite with a rod, a staff or scourge, or 2) smite in the face with flat of hand, to box the ear (4 occurences in 3 NT verses).

    Luke 22:64 does state (in different Greek words) that the blows were to the face --
    And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?​

    And finally, Matthew 26:67 where only the Geneva uses "with roddes" and Coverdale makes no specification at all --
    Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote [him] with the palms of their hands, (KJV)

    Then dyd they spyt in his face, and buffeted hym with fistes. And other smote hym on his face with the paulme of their handes, (Bishops)

    Then spytted they in his face, & smote him with fistes. Some smote him (Coverdale)

    Then spet they in his face, and buffeted him, and other smote him with roddes, (Geneva)

    Then spat they in his face and boffeted him with fistes. And other smote him with the palme af their hondes (Tyndale)

    Thanne thei speten in to his face, and smyten hym with buffatis; and othere yauen strokis with the pawme of her hondis in his face, (Wycliffe)​

    A slightly different Greek word, rhapizo (Strong's #4474) which similarly is defined as: 1) to smite with a rod or staff, or 2) smite in the face with palm of hand, a slap in the face, box the ear (2 occurences in NT).
     
    #1 franklinmonroe, Dec 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2008
  2. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    The AV1611 text looks something like this, with a sidenote --
    And when hee had thus fpoken,
    one of the officers which ftood by, ftroke
    Jesus || with the palm of his hand,
    saying, Anfwereft thou the hie prieft fo?

    || Or, with a rod
    (Notice also that the modern KJV text has "struck" rather than "stroke". Is that a spelling change, or a different word?)

    The AV1611 text looks something like this, with a sidenote --
    Then did they fpit in his face,
    and buffeted him; and others fmote
    him with || the palms of their hands,

    || Or, rods.
    (Notice also that "him" in the modern KJV is italicized text [or bracketed] to indicate that it is not supported by a Greek word.)
     
    #2 franklinmonroe, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2008
  3. EdSutton

    EdSutton
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    Slow time today in Cincinnati, franklinmonroe??

    Just wondered, since I see that you are replying to your own posts. :D :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I have posted replies to my own posts.Sometimes I'll respond with something like :"Rippon,what in the world are you talking about?You're wrong;and here's why." I figure I'll beat others to the punch.But sometimes it's just that things are slow around these parts (in between the silly beef protests and literal political brawling).

    Sorry Franklin,for derailing your thread momentarily.
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon
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    Strongs 4475 ῥάπισμα [rhapisma ] n From 4474; GK 4825; Three occurrences; AV translates as “strike with the palm of (one’s) hand + 906” once, “strike with the palm of (one’s) hand + 1325” once, and “smite with (one’s) hand + 1325” once.
    1 a blow with a rod or staff or a scourge.
    2 a blow with the flat of the hand, a slap in the face, box the ear.


    19.4 ῥαπίζω; ῥάπισμα, τος n:
    to hit or strike with the open hand, the fist, or an instrument (for example, club, rod, or whip) —‘to slap, to hit, to whip, to beat.’
    Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament : Based on Semantic Domains, electronic ed. of the 2nd edition. (New York: United Bible societies, 1996, c1989), 1:222.

    ...with a rod they strike the ruler of Israel
    upon the cheek.

    But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah,
    who are one of the little clans of Judah,
    from you shall come forth for me
    one who is to rule in Israel,
    whose origin is from of old,
    from ancient days.

    Micah 5:1b-2 NRSV

    Rob
     

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