different kinds of calvinists

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. nodak

    nodak
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    This isn't a pro or anti Calvinism thread. If it were, it would belong on a different forum.

    Simple questions:

    In our town, there are Calvinists and then there are Calvinists.

    Group one has people who have no clue how many God has chosen to elect, but are over the top thankful to be among them. They see no reason God would save them, but love and serve Him for it. They are not fruit pickers in their own or others lives, figuring that is God's job. They tend to produce lots of good works out of sheer joy in salvation and gratitude.

    Group two must drink pickle juice for breakfast. They distrust their own salvation and constantly seek proof they are saved. After a time of that they seem to burn out and get crabby. Then they spend their time seeking proof others who claim to be saved aren't. Ironically their constant fruit inspection means they have no time or energy to do good works.

    So here are my questions: are there two different schools of thought within Calvinism? Is this related to the Lordship Salvation controversy within Calvinism? Or is it more just a personality difference?

    Again, let's not debate pro or con Calvinism, just what appear to me to be two very different kinds of Calvinists.

    Thanks for any light you can shine!
     
  2. kyredneck

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    "....drink pickle juice for breakfast. They distrust their own salvation and constantly seek proof they are saved. After a time of that they seem to burn out and get crabby. Then they spend their time seeking proof others who claim to be saved aren't. Ironically their constant fruit inspection means they have no time or energy to do good works...."

    And this applies only to Calvinists how? I've known a whoooole lot of Arminian sour pusses in my day.
     
  3. nodak

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    It isn't a Calvinism vs Arminianism thread, remember?

    Baptist church I attend happens to be a Calvinistic one, yet there are two such different camps and I am trying to understand why is all.

    Serious answers anyone?
     
  4. kyredneck

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    It is a serious answer. Free willers can be sour pusses too.
     
  5. JamesL

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    I think the difference between the two types of Calvinist would be whether they think more objectively or subjectively.

    One is more prone to carry Calvinism to its logical conclusions, and be distraught.

    The other is more likely to adhere only to the point of emotional comfort, and have loose ends

    And Kyredneck is right, Arminians are prone to have the same two kinds of people.
     
  6. Reformed

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    Your assessment of different Calvinists is purely subjective. The same claims can be made of any Christian, Calvinist or not.

    Individual Calvinists themselves may be or may not be any or all of the things you describe. Unless you can provide some corroborating evidence we are left at taking your word for it. I would rather not judge an entire group in the absence of evidence.
     
  7. Iconoclast

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    Some see these truths early on in their Christian life. They then study with a view to be pleasing to God.

    Some have been mis-taught at first. Through study the Spirit allows them to understand more and more. Then they almost have a period where they resent those who taught them falsely and kept them back from enjoying these truths.

    After going through a 'cage stage"....they settle down and grow in wisdom towards those who are without.

    people who are saved...were sinners. Some were "nice" sinners.. very respectable.
    Others picked up the slack and were above average sinners...they made it an art form!
    Those who were such tend to be very greatful and have a strong zeal to serve God in every way . When they observe others who seem a bit slack,,,,lets say... they are concerned they are perhaps not yet saved because they do not see the fire in them.
    The person might be saved but by temperament much more reserved.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    It's a Calvinist thread.
     
  9. JamesL

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    But not a Calvinist /Arminian debate.

    Good grief.
     
  10. nodak

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    I spent many years in modified Arminian churches. I am well aware there are pickle puss Christians in any theological camp.

    But at church we seem very evenly divided into two camps. One camp is deliriously joyous to have been saved and heaven bent on serving. The other camp is worried they may be false converts and pretty sure everyone else is a false convert.

    I'm trying to get a handle on just where this divide is coming from. Is it certain teachers? Are there different types of Calvinists? Just personality showing through? Is it some sort of theological difference or divide within the Calvinist family?

    I would have the same questions if it were a modified Arminian church, but obviously the answers might be different.

    If you consider yourself Calvinist, can you tell me if you are the happy type or not, and why?
     
  11. Reformed

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    I do not even know what you mean when you say "happy type". I am a Calvinist and I like to believe I have an optimistic view of the future because I know who holds the future. There are times when I am happy, and there are times when I am not. Those moods have less to do with whether I am a Calvinist than they do with the fact that I am a flawed human being.

    I will tell you that, as a Calvinist, I am joyful over the fact that God is in complete control. There is nothing that can catch Him by surprise and snatch me from His secure hands.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    you'd best talk to your pastor about this.
    we are likely not in a position to give you an objective, impartial answer.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

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    She MUST be talking bout Presbyterians! :laugh:
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    There are reformed baptist calvinists, who would hold to the entire Covenent Theology of the system, who would be like presby save they do hold to believers baptism

    There are baptist calvinists, who normally ascribe to the reformed doctrines of grace, but normally do not hold to all of Covenant theology

    First group isually with LS camp, second group usually more the OSAS camp
     
  15. nodak

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    Thanks!

    And yes, asking my pastor is a good idea but not feasible for a few weeks.

    Maybe it is LS vs OSAS, I don't know. I've had several folks from both the happy and the picklepuss faith branches as SS and Bible study teachers through the years.

    Both camps believe in both the perseverance of the saints and the preservation of the saints. Now that you mention it, the ones running around sour and nitpicky do stress the perseverance of the saints, and the ones running around joyful and serving any way they can do seem to be the ones who stress the preservation of the saints. At least, that has been my experience.

    Are there different strains of Calvinism stressing more one than the other? I ask because one stresses he is a CALVINIST and seems almost defeated by his faith. Most of the rest say they are Reformed Baptists.

    What is the difference?
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I don't know...flip a coin & take your pick....or go ask them why they are miserable or happy....but its generally the legalists (of all stripes that are picklepusses) ....these are the ones generally enduring extra long services cause of long winded sermons. :laugh:
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    What are you talking about....camps??? What camps?????
     
  18. Winman

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    I only see two kinds of Calvinists;

    #1 Consistent Calvinists; These are Calvinists who are very consistent with Calvinism and take the doctrine to it logical ends. These persons tend to be Hyper-Calvinists. These persons will often claim God determines that the non-elect be damned, not that he simply "allowed" them to perish in their sins. They often believe that God determined sin for the purpose that he could display his justice and wrath. Very "hyper" Calvinists do not believe in evangelism, but even most Hypers deny this.

    #2 Inconsistent or Moderate Calvinists: These are Calvinists who compromise on many positions. They will claim all babies go to heaven, where most Hypers will claim non-elect babies go to hell. Many Moderate Calvinists reject Limited Atonement.

    There really is a full range of Calvinists, from the very Hyper to the very inconsistent or Moderate. Spurgeon was a very inconsistent Calvinist and openly admitted it.

    Very few Calvinists admit they are hyper, but many Calvinists accuse other Calvinists of being hyper.

    I believe these are the two basic types of Calvinists, but any Calvinist can be anywhere between these two extremes.
     
  19. Jkdbuck76

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    3rd group: HYPO-Calvinists.

    Srsly, you need to ask these people why they are happy. My guess: it's all about perspective.... when standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon, it looks like a huge hole, but when standing at the bottom looking up, it seems like you're in the middle of two mountains.

    Some people find NO JOY in their salvation! How can a person not be excited that the Almighty Creator of all loves them enough to die for them? Some folks act as if they're the Frozen Chosen.
     
  20. Thousand Hills

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    #20 Thousand Hills, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014

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