Difficult scripture in Mt. 24

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ingo Breuer, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Ingo Breuer

    Ingo Breuer
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    When Jesus speaks in Mt. 24:15-22 about great tribulation in Jerusalem in Judaea I wonder if he is speaking about the prophesied destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD or the desecration of the Temple by the Antichrist during the great tribulation. The disciples asked in Mt. 24:2 "when shall these things be" referring to the announced destruction of the Temple (v.2). Did the Roman emperor Titus who destroyed Jerusalem put up the abomination of desolation in the holy place as spoken of by Christ and Daniel?
    Does Luke 21:20-24 refer to the events in 70AD or during the great tribulation?
    I would appreciate your answer on this Scripture. Thank you!
     
  2. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    I have always taught that verses 15-28 are speaking specifically about the siege of Jerusalem, whilst from verse 29 on He is talking about the last great day and not the mythical great tribulation of premillennialism.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    While some of this may have had "minor" fulfillment (partial) in AD70 or AD125 (Bar Kochba revolt), the bulk of it is yet to be fulfilled.

    Unless one interprets it all "spiritually" or "allegorically" (in other words, not as fact but as story).

    Have not seen the moon turn into blood, the sun refuse to shine, etc. But believe it will happen.

    And Jim is entitled to be wrong (again) in his interpretation. It IS talking about events prior to the coming of the Lord to establish His kingdom. That is PRE-millennial by any definition!
     
  4. Watchman

    Watchman
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    Excellent post Dr.Bob.
    As the, "Other Night Owl", I hate following you and posting when I disagree with you. But on eschatology we fully agree.
    Not only have we not seen anything happen to the sun and moon, as you mentioned, but also many other events that have not happened. Nor has anyone, that I know of, explained what happened to Daniel's 70th week. Those of the other viewpoints are, as my pastor pointed out, pounding square pegs into round holes.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Glad SOMEONE agrees with me occasionally. Seems like it's less often than I would have thought.

    I have taught the four major views (pros and cons of each) and find anything other than pre-mil to be untennable to fundamentalism and the whole rubric of biblical eschatology.
     
  6. Grasshopper

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    Context says AD70.

    Yes, although there are different views on just what was the Abomination Of Desolation.

    Both. They happened at the same time. That passage in Luke only makes sense if viewed in the time-frame of Jerusalem in AD70.


    Now notice this verse:
    Matt. 24: 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Now as you know, some take this literal. Why? The Old Testament is full of this figurative language when describing judgement. See examples:


    Judgement on Egypt(530BC)
    Ez.32:7 And when I shall extinguish thee, I will cover the heavens, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give its light.
    8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord Jehovah.

    Fall of Babylon(539BC)
    Is. 13: 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in its going forth, and the moon shall not cause its light to shine.


    Fall of Israel
    Amos 8: 8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? yea, it shall rise up wholly like the River; and it shall be troubled and sink again, like the River of Egypt.
    9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord Jehovah, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day.

    Judgement on Nineveh
    Nahum 1

    1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
    2 Jehovah is a jealous God and avengeth; Jehovah avengeth and is full of wrath; Jehovah taketh vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
    5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt; and the earth is upheaved at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

    All historic events. Are we to take these literal? Notice this:

    Judgement on Edom
    Is. 34: 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll ; and all their host shall fade away, as the leaf fadeth from off the vine, and as a fading leaf from the fig-tree.
    5 For my sword hath drunk its fill in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

    Now notice Revelation:
    Rev. 6:14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places

    So why do we take figurtive language in the OT and make it literal in the NT? Jesus was well aware of this language as were His disciples. Being taught the OT all thier lives they knew exactly what Jesus was teaching. Too bad we do not know our OT like they did.

    Here is an excellent series on the Olivet Discourse:

    http://www.audiowebman.org/bbc/start/audios1.htm
     

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