Directions to the City

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Chowmah

    Chowmah
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    REV. 3 [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [11] Behold, I come quickly: HOLD THAT FAST WHICH THOU HAST, THAT NO MAN TAKE THY CROWN. [12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of THE CITY OF MY GOD, WHICH IS NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    Do we have any directions to this city? How can we lose our crown?

    REV. 22 [14] Blessed are THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

    PROVERBS 4 [1] Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding. [2] For I give you good doctrine, FORSAKE YE NOT MY LAW. [3] For I was my father's son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother. [4] He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, AND LIVE. [5] Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth. [6] Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee. [7] Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. [8] Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her. [9] She shall give to thine head AN ORNAMENT OF GRACE: A CROWN OF GLORY shall she deliver to thee.

    Is the crown an ornament of grace (you are saved by grace)

    PSALM 89 [27] Also I will make him MY FIRSTBORN, higher than the kings of the earth. [28] My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. [29] His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. [30] IF HIS CHILDREN FORSAKE MY LAW, and walk not in my judgments; [31] If they break my statutes, AND KEEP NOT MY COMMANDMENTS; [32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. [33] Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. [34] My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. [35] Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. [36] His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. [37] It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. [38] But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed. [39] Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: THOU HAST PROFANED HIS CROWN BY CASTING IT TO THE GROUND.

    My Firstborn? Boy oh boy, none of these scriptures seem to be saying what the sunday mournin pulpiteers say about Gods 10 commandments (sabbath included) and grace. We know that grace is a free gift and now we know to whom this free gift is givin.

    2 Tim. 2 [1] Thou therefore, my son, BE STRONG IN THE GRACE THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS. [2] And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. [3] Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. [4] No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. [5] And if a man also strive for masteries, YET IS HE NOT CROWNED, EXCEPT HE STRIVE LAWFULLY.

    Even if they never ventured out of the new testament they should have come across this scripture from 2Tim. Seems there are directions to the city.

    DEUT. 5 [32] Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    In other words, continuing good works, not continual good thoughts.
     
  3. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    You are confusing contexts. Lost people cannot keep God's commandments (Rom. 3:19-20; Gal. 3:10-12) and saved people do not keep them to be justified but to please and glorify God here and now and for reward in heaven. Not all the saved will live in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:24) as that is a reward. There is a "crown of life" in heaven or the crown in the life to come for faithfulness as there will be in heaven those who are "least" versus those who are "greatest" and the "least" will not get this "crown" but will be in heaven nevertheless (Mt. 5:19).
     
  4. Chowmah

    Chowmah
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    What you say Dr. is not scriptural. You say after you are saved, you then keep the 10 to please God

    You must FIRST go to the school master (big 10) to bring us to Christ
    GALATIANS 3 [24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    You must FIRST be keeping the commandments before recieving the Holy Spirit
    JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you
     
  5. Dr. Walter

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    It is the lost person who must first go to the law to learn what sin is before they recognize they are a sinner in need of a Savior - that is the instruction of the Law.

    John 14 is talking to saved people who already know and have the Holy Spirit dwelling with them and in them as as individuals, already born of the Spirit (Jh.3:3,5; Rom. 8:8-9). Jesus is speaking of the baptism in the Spirit as a plural "you" and as a new "house of God" (1 Tim. 3:15) or "temple" (1 Cor. 3:16). Every new house of God was immersed in the shekinah glory (Ex. 40:35; 2 Chron. 7:3; Acts 2:1-2).

    You are mixing apples with oranges.
     
  6. Chowmah

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    You sure do like to add things to the Word which are not there. You say John 14 is talking to the saved and yet there are instructions to them as how to get the Holy Spirit. What you say is not written.

    As for the apples and oranges. Im assuming your saying you cant mix the law with faith. Their like oil and vinegar so you say.

    Hebrews 11:28
    Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
     
  7. Chowmah

    Chowmah
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    Rev. 14:12
    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    You may think faith and the commandments are as apples and oranges but the saints of God dont
     
  8. Dr. Walter

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    Obviously you do not believe anyone could be born again by the Spirit prior to Penteocost even though Christ instructed Nicodemus in the new birth and rebuked him for not understanding it to be an Old Testament teaching and truth (Jn. 3:3-9) that was called circumision of the heart. You obvously don't believe people were saved by faith in the gospel even though Paul states is clearly and gives Abraham as an example of a justified believer in the gospel (Gal. 3:6-8; Rom. 3:25-26; 4:11).

    John the Baptist preached the gospel (Jn. 3:36) and all he immersed were repentant believers in that gospel. The disciples of John that followed Jesus (Jn. 1:35-51) had repented and believed the gospel John preached and all the disciples immersed under Jesus repented and believed the gospel (Lk. 7:29-30; Jn. 4:1-2) and acknowledged Him as The Christ and Son of God (Mt. 14:33). Old Testament saints simply looked forward to Christ by faith as we look back by faith - same Savior (Jn. 14:6) same way of salvation (Mt. 7:13-14) no other name given under heaven (Acts 4:12) and thus the same gospel (Acts 10:43; 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2) and thus the same salvation.

    So, I am consistent with the same Christ, same gospel, same way, same salvation as there is no other way (Jn. 14:6) no other name (Acts 4:12 with 10:43) and no other gospel (Gal. 1:8-9) than the gospel preached to Abraham and to the children of Israel (Gal. 3:6-9; Heb. 4:2).

    What you have is oranges and monkeys ::wavey:

     
  9. Chowmah

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    Heres another scripture to ponder

    ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.
     
  10. Chowmah

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    GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    And Abe honestly kept the 10 commandments
     
  11. Dr. Walter

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    Simply because faith is IN THE OBJECT which satisfied the law completely in the believers behalf as stated previously in Romans 3:24-26.
     
  12. Chowmah

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    Romans 3:24-26
    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Thats a fact. No one can keep the law perfectly. We are as filthy rags. Weve all come up short. The grace of God takes care of that. The free gift. No man can boast. But according to your words....There is no law. Therefore there is no sin. For sin is the transgression of the law.

    But

    1 John 1:8
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    In Romans 3 {25} you might wanna keep in mind the words "sins that are past".
     
    #12 Chowmah, Sep 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2010
  13. Dr. Walter

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    In regard to the authority and penalty of the law we are DEAD to it - Hence, we are not under the law's authority or penal administration.

    In regard to the purpose of the law - to instruct us in sin - it is valid in our lives. But it has never been and never will be valid to justify us before God as Christ is "the end of the law for righteousness" that justifies us before God.
     
  14. Chowmah

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    Can i go off topic with you for a minute please. About John the Baptist

    Luke 7:28
    For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

    Whats that scripture saying. Wont John be in the Kingdom?
     
  15. Chowmah

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    Its bothered me for years and no one has given a good answer . Have you looked into it?
     
  16. Dr. Walter

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    Jesus was six months younger than John. The term "least" can refer to position or age. The only one greater than John was Jesus Christ whom John came as the herald to announce:

    Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
     
  17. Chowmah

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    Thanks Doc. Im still not sure what its sayin. But thanks for your answer
     

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