Discharging a Staff Member

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, May 12, 2011.

  1. Berean

    Berean
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    When it becomes necessary to discharge a staff member (ordained) for obstinanateness and flagrant insubordination Should this be handled differently from the private sector. The difference is inreconcilable.
    Should the congretion be told that the "Lord called him to a different ministery" Or "Bro ______ resigned". Is anything other then the truth better? This is not a resignation.
     
  2. JohnDeereFan

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    It's hard to say without knowing the details. If there is sin involved, then I would deal with it in the context of church discipline. If not, then I would just say that Brother So and So has decided to seek a ministry elsewhere.

    If it's a sin issue, then the goal should be restoration. If not, then the goal should be parting as amicably as possible.
     
  3. mandym

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    Churches have a habit of trying to unload their problem on some other church. If either a staff member of even just an regular church member misbehaves, sins drastically or whatever, in many cases the church would rather they just go away. Often without ever dealing with the issue and making an attempt to bring that person to repentance churches will just let them go away and when their new church sends a request for their letter of membership they just send it out passing on the problem to someone else.

    Churches need to deal with these problems, refuse to letter someone out in good standing, and be willing to disciple those who are having difficult times in their walk.
     
  4. annsni

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    Don't lie but don't gossip.
     
  5. glfredrick

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    I would want to know how the disagreemenet between brothers in the Lord came to that point.
     
  6. exscentric

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    The church is a body, not a body and a separate head of leaders, if the head has a splitting headache the body will probably know.

    One of the churches I attended asked a leader to leave, kept it all hush hush and the ensuing unrest split the church ultimately due to the secrecy and lack of openness.

    The leaders serve at the pleasure of the body in most churches, they should be told what is going on and no good reference should be given to future requesters if there were problems.
     
  7. mandym

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    Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.


    The church body does not always need to know the details of everything that goes on. I never work in a vacuum and I make sure that my deacons at minimum know what is going on. sometimes sharing details serves no purpose that benefits anyone.
     
  8. sag38

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    So far as dumping off someone on an unsupecting church I would say, "buyer beware." If you are looking for a staff member you better do your homework. Check references. Ask the hard questions. If not, it's not the fault of the last church the apple served in.
     
  9. mandym

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    If they lettered them out as a member in good standing it most certainly is.
     
  10. sag38

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    True: I'm not talking about moral failures. Some folks just aren't cut out for certain positions in a particular place or at any place. They have all the qualifications,etc., but just don't cut the mustard. I'm not going to go out of my way to black ball such a person. Who knows, he or she may be a better fit somewhere else. My disaster may just be the next church's diamond in the ruff. Even if you call me checking employment references I'm not going volunteer that there was a problem. You will have to ask me direct questions to which I will give you direct answers.
     
  11. mandym

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    Well the leaving can be done in a way that all issues are resolved.
     
  12. Pastor_Bob

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    My philosophy is to handle the problem in the smallest circle possible. If it is a private matter between the pastor and the staff member, handle it privately. If it concerns just a couple of families, deal with just those families. If it is a public matter, handle it publicly. The less people who are involved, the better chance you have of avoiding someone picking up the staff member's offense. When that happens, it will spread like wildfire through your church and even, quite possibly, your community.
     
  13. exscentric

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    "The church body does not always need to know the details of everything that goes on."

    Did not say they did.

    Not sure the reason for the text - they are leaders, they are supposed to be called by the Spirit to ministry but they are still part of the body.
     
  14. Siberian

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    If it is not a sin issue, and if Brother Soandso is willing to resign, let him and then tell the congregation. If the issue is that he has a different vision than the vision of his leaders, then it is healthy for him and the church to make the change. As someone else has said, don't let this get to the point where there are sides weighing in and taking up offensive positions. A molehill might be made into a mountain.
     
  15. Tom Bryant

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    Lots of questions about this. 1) Has there been an ongoing attempt to deal with the attitude of the person? 2) Had they been spoken to about the problem? 3) Had they been told that at some point that failure to change would result in severance? 4)Had a neutral mediator been asked to intervene?

    It seems if it gets to the point of insolvability the pastor or leadership team or personnel committee ought to have said, "You're not fitting in and the job you were called here to do is not being done the way we want it to be. We will give you 6 months to find another position. BUT, if it continues, we reserve the right to simply ask you to leave."
     
  16. rbell

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    I've been in a situation similar to this...I wasn't the one leaving, but I was the only other staff member.

    My church at that time I thought handled it well. First, they clearly expressed their concerns, and gave the pastor several opportunities to remedy the problem.

    When he could not, and the time came to part ways, they gave him an extremely generous (longer than normal) severance package--understanding that it sometimes takes pastors longer to find a place to serve (ironically, it's harder to find a church when you aren't currently serving in one).

    Anyhow...I won't say it was fun times, but they handled it fairly well.
     
  17. revmwc

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    Always follow scripture when it comes to the church as far as the situation about truth goes,
    Colossians 3:
    8But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

    9Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

    10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


    Verse 9 is very clear lie not one to another, that would include the church body.

    And then there is James 3:
    13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

    14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

    15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

    Lie not against the truth. It is clear you shouldn't lie about the reason they are being let go.

    Of course we could go to Proverbs 24:


    27Prepare thy work without, and make it fit for thyself in the field; and afterwards build thine house.

    28Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips.

    29Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work.


    For the ultimate answer, deceive not with thy lips. Fairly straight forward.


    Of course here is what the Lord said, Matthew 5:

    22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.


    Reconcile with him if possible.

    Romans 12:


    17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

    18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.


    Live peaceably. If all has been tried discharge but make it clear the reason to all who need to know. If he resigns simply state he, Bro. Doodledigger has decided to resign his position here with us. If he is discharged simply state he was asked to leave his position for personal reasons.
     
  18. DiamondLady

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    This truly is not enough information to give an informed opinion. For instance, Is the staff member a music minister who wants to sing Gaither songs and you, the pastor don't like the Gaithers? Sometimes stubbornness and insubordination are the opinion of the person and would not necessarily be the opinion of the church. I'm one who could be considered obstinate, I like to do things my way because I think my way is best. I believe we're all like that to some degree. We do what is comfortable for us and what works best for us. Others may not agree and when they try to change how we do something and we don't want to change we could be considered obstinate. If it comes down to an out and out disagreement we can be considered insubordinate when we simply refuse. I hope you see where I'm going with this.

    I think the pastor and deacons should sit down with the person and express clearly what the problems are and what the accepted solutions would be. At that point the staff member should be given a short opportunity to show their ability to change or be asked to submit a resignation. I never think someone should be fired for something like this without giving an opportunity for restoration.

    It might also be that some compromise can be reached, such as in my example, where the church can sing Gaither songs on the 4th Sunday of Months with an R.
     

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