Dismissal of a Wayward Member or a 'Meddling' Pastor

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. G, Oct 5, 2002.

  1. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    As a pastor, would you attempt to have the church carry out church discipline of a wayward member even if you thought it might get you dismissed?
     
  2. Jim1999

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    It is not for me to have a member dismissed. I might have a little fireside chat with the bloke, but it remains the business of the church to seek dismissal, in my opinion.

    Besides, How can I throw darts in his direction when he is warming the pew of another church?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    I will do it the prescribed Biblical way. First, a heart to heart talk, then a two- or three-to-one, then, bring it before the church and let the church decide.
    Correction is always the primary aim, reconciliation to the Lord the desired result.
     
  4. weeping prophet

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    I will do it the prescribed Biblical way. First, a heart to heart talk, then a two- or three-to-one, then, bring it before the church and let the church decide.
    Correction is always the primary aim, reconciliation to the Lord the desired result.[/QB][/QUOTE]
     
  5. Jeff Weaver

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    It would depend on the nature of his waywardness. Not enough information in your post to give a good answer, IMO.
     
  6. weeping prophet

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    In Psalms 23, as the shepherd leads the sheep, David says to the Lord,"thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." This is my life verse for Church discipline. If the sheep feel the rod of church discipline, let's make sure that we don't beat him out of the flock. God's disciplne to David was that of correction and mercy, Nathan says to David, " the Lord has put away your sin." I would approch each action with prayerful,thoughtful attention. Otherwise I would agree with p-batist above.
     
  7. weeping prophet

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    Oh, did'nt answer your question.I would say yes because I would have to try and help my brother more than I want to keep my job. In Christ, bless you my bro.
     
  8. Rev. G

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    Jim, and others, please note that I did not say that it was for the pastor to carry out church discipline. Read the "fine print":

    Also, the "fireside chat" is the beginning of church discipline, is it not? Mt. 18

    Would you take it beyond the one-on-one chat? Taking the two or three others? Taking it before the church?

    As far as "wayward," let's make this an easy one:
    anything along the lines of adultery, extortion, etc. Something "big."

    Rev. G
     
  9. Rev. G

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    The primary aim of church discipline is the glory of God! After that comes the protection and purity of the fellowship. Then comes the reconciliation of the wayward individual. The individual is quite important, but we must never forget that church discipline is for more than just that individual.

    Rev. G
     
  10. Sherrie

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    This is how I want to see my Pastor:

    A Pastor is about God's business. Tending to His flock.

    I would think if I was off doing something "big", that you, who are my Pastor, and should be my friend, would tell me about it!

    It does not matter what position that person has in the church. This really irritates me in churches when someone who has some postion in the church has lead ways. Now you didn't say that was the case, but I have seen this happen.

    But before you can give any Discipline, you have to confront the problem. Even tho, probably the whole church is talking about it in the privacy of their own homes, You should talk to this person privately about it. Showing how it is wrong, and counciling how to repent and live right. Then if this does not work confront with two witnesses, still no progress, then the church members, and then the punishment.



    I do not understand how it would have you dismissed?

    Sherrie
     
  11. Rev. G

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    Just for clarification to everyone interested in this discussion: church discipline is a PROCESS. The first step of the process is confronting someone in a spirit of love, humility and gentleness, about their sin. The second step, if necessary, is taking two or three other "witnessnes" along to discuss the matter at hand. The third step, if necessary, is excommunicating the unrepentant member.

    Sherrie writes:
    Suppose that a church member knew of a church member who was guilty of embezzlement. The person confronted the individual to no avail. Then two or three, including the pastor, were taken along to confront the individual, to no avail. Then, after this, the pastor brought the issue before the church. The church fails to discipline the embezzling member without a "majority" in favor, and when the opporutnity is ripe, the group not in favor of church discipline (generally in any case because it is "harsh," "unloving," "unkind," "unforgiving," etc.) excommunicates the pastor. Does this make any sense?

    Rev. G
     
  12. Ulsterman

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    If the pastor fails to secure a majority vote in favour of dismissal, he has either failed to convey the full facts to the church, a less than water tight case, or a lousy carnal set of Christians in his congregation. If his job is on the line because he was doing his job before the Lord then so be it - bring the case and prepare to leave. If he has a less than water tight case so that he cannot convince the membership, he will have done great damage to his ministry and to his church, suffering a loss of confidence and creating an unnecessary division - he probably should leave. If he has failed to convey the full facts of the case he needs to come at it again with a better presentation.

    Discipline, if it follows the Scriptural pattern, works. I have employed disciplinary procedures in our church on a couple of occasions, in each case the subjects were ultimately restored.

    [ October 07, 2002, 04:29 AM: Message edited by: D Moore ]
     
  13. Rev. G

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    Unless you have a congregation filled with unregenerate church members.

    Rev. G
     
  14. Ulsterman

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    Unless you have a congregation filled with unregenerate church members.

    Rev. G
    </font>[/QUOTE]If you have a congregation filled with unregenerate church members, then you do not have a "church" by New Testament definition, and the need is evangelism and not discipline.
     
  15. Daniel David

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    Rev. G, if a pastor is afraid of his congregation and refuses to do discipline, I hope God removes him.

    If sexual sin is involved, there is no Matthew 18. It is to be immediate and without question. The member who is in sexual sin should be dealt with according to 1 Cor. 5. You don't have heart-to-hearts with them. They are immediately removed. I have witnessed first hand what happens when God's Word is not the authority on this issue.

    Out like the spine of alot of preachers when discipline is the issue.
     
  16. TomVols

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    Church discipline is crucial to a vitally healthy church. I forget who said it, but one divine said "When discipline leaves a church, Christ leaves too." The church is a redeemed body filled with strugglers, but when the struggle is public and unrepentant, the church must act as prescribed in Scripture for the glory of God, the welfare of the church and the good of the person disciplined.
     
  17. longshot

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    Hello PTW,
    Got a couple of observations. First, I cant just say "there is no Matt 18." If Jesus would have meant "unless it is a sexual sin" I think he would have said so. He sure wasnt shy about letting us know the real meaning of adultry. I believe, (and I have been wrong before :D ) that Matt 18 and 1 Cor 5 work together and a heart to heart is to take place. Also wouldn't throwing away Matt 18 in this case make one sin worse than another? Just my not so educated opinion. Appreciate any response.
     
  18. weeping prophet

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    Let me see if I get what your saying, everyone in the church who has committed sexual sin should be excommunicated immediately? Or is repentance an option? Just curious. Also, I don't think it takes courage to seek church disipline, what it takes is great love for the Body. If courage is what I need to be a good pastor, I should be in good shape, since I spent those two years in state prison most church folk don't seem all that scary. Anyways, my point is, that love for the sheep should always be the force that drives church disipline. Perfect love cast out fear!In Christ p.s. Fireside chat good place as any for repentance.
     
  19. Rev. G

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    It was John Leadley Dagg, SBC's first writing theologian (although there may well have been others).

    Rev. G
     
  20. TomVols

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    It was John Leadley Dagg, SBC's first writing theologian (although there may well have been others).

    Rev. G
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, it was JL Dagg.

    BTW, I would seek first to train the church as to the Biblical teaching on church discipline first. Most churches are clueless because their pastors were clueless.
     

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