1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Dispensationalism in II Tim 2:15

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by North Carolina Tentmaker, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. North Carolina Tentmaker

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    1
    psr.2

    I am done on this thread. I don't think it is possible for us to see eye to eye here. You said
    I could not disagree more. The mystery was not Paul's gospel or the gospel at all. There is only one gospel in the Bible, from cover to cover it is the same, and if anyone preaches another gospel we should reject it.

    Then you quote Luke 24 again saying
    This is exactly what I have been saying, its all about Jesus. The law, the prophets, psalms, it is all about Jesus and those saved in Old Testament times were saved the same way we are, through Jesus.

    I don't think I can be any clearer and I am done debating this with you. I am posting another thread based on a question I was asked this morning if you want to comment on Luke 23:43 please come on over
    [​IMG]
     
  2. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    quote;
    I Cor 2:7-8 - I addressed this, has nothing to do with your theory.

    It certainly does. Read the end of verse 8
    8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    If they had known who Jesus was and what the scripture had said God said they would not have crucified Jesus.
    Yet you insist that they did know.

    quote
    Eph 1:9-10 - I addressed this, it actually says the opposite of what you propose.

    I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Are you reading it in context or just reading those two verses?
    quote
    Eph 3:3-6 - I addressed this, again we find the Bible and you are saying direct opposite things.

    3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Let's look at it together shall we?
    1.Jews are God's chosen people
    2. Paul is a Jew
    3.Jews and even your Saviour called gentiles "dogs"
    4. Now through this revealed mystery Paul is taking the gospel to the gentiles.
    5. the reason the gospel was made available is because the Jews rejected it (that's scriptual)
    6. this mystery of the gospel and it going to the gentiles has been revealed.
    7. remember the havoc it caused when some found out that Peter had gone to the gentiles?
    8. once again let me point out that the gospel throughout the scripture means multiple things. Look it up. We will save that for another thread.
     
  3. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Tentmaker quote;
    I could not disagree more. The mystery was not Paul's gospel or the gospel at all. There is only one gospel in the Bible, from cover to cover it is the same, and if anyone preaches another gospel we should reject it.

    I guess I'll have to carry it on by myself since you left.
    Yes Paul did say that for the church age saints but look at the different gospels in the bible.

    Matt. 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    "this gospel"

    Trib gospel
    8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
    9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
    10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
    11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
    12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
    13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
    15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
    16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
    17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
    19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
    20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
    21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
    22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
    23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
    24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
    28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
    29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
    30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
    31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
    32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
    33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
    34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
    35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
    36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
    37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

    trib gospel
    Rev 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
    8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
    You or I don't have to worry about not taking the Mark we will be gone but that is the gospel to someone in the trib.
     
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have thought and heard that "saved" in Matt 24.13 means physical safety, not salvation. Jesus is addressing believers, so they are already saved. But the ones who endure shall not have physical death but have safety.
     
  5. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Not at all. Jesus is responding to the question his disciples asked about the end of the world.
    He goes on to say that enduring is the gospel at that time.
    :15 talks of the abomination spoken of by Daniel.
    That is when the anti Christ sits in the temple in Jerusalem.
    All will be forced to take the 666 then. If you refuse because you know the penalty for eternity connected to it you will be killed.
    If they endure to the end without taking the mark and being obedient to what God told them to do they are saved.

    :16 has to do with Israel fleeing to the wilderness during the trib. God will then begin to deal with them as in O.T. when fleeing Egypt.
     
Loading...