Dispensationalism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Bible Answer Kid, Jun 25, 2005.

  1. The Bible Answer Kid

    The Bible Answer Kid
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    I've heard the term "dispensationalism" thrown around a lot lately. However, I'm not quite sure of what it is in detail and its origin. Could anyone help me out here?
     
  2. exscentric

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    Short version:

    They see Time broken into dispensations, or periods of time underwhich God deals a little differently with man. He dealt with Adam/Eve differently than with the Jews (under law), and differently than with the church. They see seven usually. There are variations of dispensationalists.

    They DO NOT teach two or multiple ways of salvation.

    Dispensationalists normally are premillennial in eschatology, and hold to literal interpretation as opposed to allegorical.

    http://answers.org/theology/dispensationalism.html has a more detailed definition.

    http://www.bible.org might have some detailed info for you if you want to read their position.
     
  3. wopik

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    are you sure?


    most christians think jews in the ot were saved by keeping the law.


    Paul says that is bologne-----Galatians 3:21, kjv.
     
  4. Paul33

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    The old Scofield Bible also taught two ways of salvation, one for Israel, and a different one for the church.
     
  5. Pronto

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    Yes, they do ... most just don't admit it or realize the implications of the dispensational scheme.
     
  6. Paul33

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    They also teach two different destinies for eternity for Israel and the church.

    Israel has an earthly destiny; the church has a heavenly destiny.
     
  7. exscentric

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    "are you sure?"

    Yes.

    "most christians think jews in the ot were saved by keeping the law."

    Known dispies for thirty years and have never talked to one that holds that - seems a story the nondispies like to tell.

    "Paul says that is bologne-----Galatians 3:21"

    So do I :)

    "The old Scofield Bible also taught two ways of salvation, one for Israel, and a different one for the church."

    Schofield in the FIRST edition worded things very poorly indicating this but it was corrected and this has been stated over and over on boards, but nondispies either can't read or choose to ignore what they read and keep repeating it. [​IMG]

    Sorry I didn't lay all this out in my first post as I certainly knew these type of charges were coming, as well as many more most likely.

    Bible Answer Kid, do some study of what the dispies say, not what the nondispies say they say and you will get a much clearer picture of dispensationalsim. [​IMG]
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    Some dispensationalists hold to two ways of salvation (e.g. Ruckman). They are wrong. I believe most do not. Salvation in every dispensation is by grace through faith. Paul, who was a strong dispensationalist, did say that salvation by works was wrong.
     
  9. Paul33

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    Paul?

    The Apostle Paul was not a dispensationalist! The whole movement was invented in the early 1830s and adopted by Darby. [​IMG]

    As to the 1st edition of Scofield, it was the only version I had. If it was corrected, I didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  10. shannonL

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    I went to Piedmont Baptist College a dispensational school we were never taught that there was two different ways of salavation. One for Jews (Israel) and one for others.

    Gen 15:6 - Then he (Abram) believed in the Lord and HE reckoned it to him as righteousness.

    I definitly believe there are promises given to Israel that are different from The Church.

    Israel is definitly promised land, seed and blessing.
    I don't want to get into all that I just want to say that in all of Scripture there is only one way for all people of all time periods of God's Word to be saved and that is by grace through faith alone Through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord.

    I'm definitly pre-mill, believe in the rapture, believe in the literal 1000yr. reign of Christ. I believe in a literal eternal hell as a place of punishment for the wicked.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    This is a common misconception fostered by many. The principles of dispensationalism go all the way back to the garden of Eden where God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they understood him to mean "tree of knowledge of good and evil" rather than something else. That principle has carried on all through human history where man has been expected to understand God's words in their normal sense, not reading into them a "spiritual" or "figurative" meaning. That is the basis of dispensationalism ... that God meant what he said. Paul certainly believed that. Paul made a fundamental and consistent distinction between the church and Israel as a nation, a distinction recognized in dispensationalism.

    What did Darby do? Darby was one of the ones who began to systematize the principles that had long existed prior to him. But it is historically inaccurate to say that Darby invented dispensationalism.
     
  12. shannonL

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    Amen Larry,

    I get a little upset at folk on the BB trying to push dispensationalism into "cult" status. Cetainly ultra-dispensationalists have some problems. One thing my Bible teacher drilled into my head my first year was "Men Israel is not the Church". For me personally that statement helps to unfold the Bible in a clear, normal, literal fashion. I know its my disposition theologically yet I just don't see how you can read the OT and not see that Israel is promised land. Either it was a physical land or it wasn't. IT IS.
     
  13. shannonL

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    BTW, You know Hank Hanergraff "The Bible Answerman" really unloads on dispensational theology. I appreciate his revealing of some of the W of F. teachers. Yet at the same time he takes some real potshots at dispen. I think he is really into researching the preterist contro now.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    I never listen to Hank or read anything by him. I have never been greatly impressed by him. And I am not sure what the controversy about preterism is. It has no real basis in Scripture. It is another attempt, IMO, to explain current events in light of Scripture.
     
  15. Dr.Tim

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    I personally believe there are four groups of dispensationalists...

    1. The Common Dispensationalists are those who believe that are are at least two divisions in the Bible (whether it be Before the Fall/After the Fall or Old Testament/New Testament).

    2. The Mild Dispensationalists are those who do recognize several economies (not time periods, since they do overlap, and have parentheticals)but believe that men are all saved the same way (seems like Ryrie and others from Dallas may take this view). This group would draw a distinction between Israel and the Church, for example, without believing there is any difference in how they are saved.

    3. The Dispensationalists (no pre-fix added here) are those who do believe in different economies and also believe that people in different dispensations were saved in different ways, and also see different destinies, as was mentioned above. This group would go as far as saying that until the death of Christ, the "New Testament" as we call it was still doctrinally Old Testament.

    4. Ultra-Dispensationalists are like Stam and others who have two different churches..or bodies.. one being from Peter and one being Pauline.. just to give an example..and also many of this group do not practice water baptism.

    When I was at the seminary in New Orleans, there was a class taught by a Dr. Barnes who was a good man, someone I know loved the Lord. He was more of the Covenental type theologian. Someone in class asked him.. "What is a dispensationalist?" He answered, "Well, seems they believe that man was saved differently at different points in time in the Bible."
     
  16. Paul33

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    This is a common misconception fostered by many. The principles of dispensationalism go all the way back to the garden of Eden where God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they understood him to mean "tree of knowledge of good and evil" rather than something else. That principle has carried on all through human history where man has been expected to understand God's words in their normal sense, not reading into them a "spiritual" or "figurative" meaning. That is the basis of dispensationalism ... that God meant what he said. Paul certainly believed that. Paul made a fundamental and consistent distinction between the church and Israel as a nation, a distinction recognized in dispensationalism.

    What did Darby do? Darby was one of the ones who began to systematize the principles that had long existed prior to him. But it is historically inaccurate to say that Darby invented dispensationalism.
    </font>[/QUOTE]What a hoot!

    And Baptists go all the way back to Upper Room of Acts!
     
  17. Paul33

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    Try this "literal" interpretation out on 2 Thess. 1:6! Paul, Silas and Timothy (1:1) wrote a letter to the church of the Thessalonians (1:1). Can we all agree that the letter was written to the church and not to the Jews?

    Paul informs them that they will be counted worthy of the "kingdom of God" - a phrase many dispensationalists say refers to "Israel" and not the church!

    Paul then says this: "God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well (1:6-7). Paul is clearly telling the church that relief from persecution is going to come to them and to him as well. When?

    "This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels" (1:7). The literal reading of the text is very clear! Relief from trials and troubles will come to the church at Thessalonica, and too Paul, Silas and Timothy, when Christ is revealed in blazing fire with his powerful angels! This can only take place at the end of the tribulation, for it is at the end of the tribulation that dispensationalists themselves claim that Jesus Christ is going to be revealed to the world in blazing fire, riding on a white horse, and the whole world will see Christ and his powerful angels!

    So a literal reading of 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 teaches that the church finds relief from trials when Christ appears in blazing fire with his powerful angels, and not seven years earlier in a secret rapture for the church.

    Just to make sure that we are on the right track, 2 Thess. 1:8-10 says, "He will punish those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you."

    When Christ is revealed in blazing fire, releif comes to the church and the unbelievers are shut out from the Lord's presence and from his majesty on the "day" he comes to be glorified in his holy people, which includes the church at Thessalonica, the very ones who believed Paul's testimony to them. Just when the punishment takes place isn't stated in the text. Some no doubt die in Armageddon, others enter the millenium under the iron scepter of Christ, but all of the wicked will eventually be raised, judged, and cast into the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years.

    But the point of this passage is clear! Relief from persecution comes at the end of the tribulation when Christ returns in blazing fire with his powerful angels to punish the wicked and to be glorified in his holy people which includes the church!

    It is impossible to interpret this passage as pre-trib if one is "literal."

    So much for the pre-trib rapture theory of the 1800s.
     
  18. LadyEagle

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    In the OT, they were saved by looking forward to the Cross:

    In the NT (Church Age), we are saved by looking back at the Cross.

    I have yet to see a naysayer adequately explain a literal interpretation of Romans 11. [​IMG]
     
  19. Gold Dragon

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    Dispensationalism is a framework for biblical interpretation that strongly emphasizes (over-emphasizes in my mind) the idea of progressive revelation so that the history of mankind is divided into several discreet "dispensations" where God uses different "economies" to judge people. This model of interpretation arose in the 1820s primarily through the teachings of John Nelson Darby.

    This idea of dispensations is useful for reconciling some of the difficult passages found throughout the bible that apparently contradict when the bible is interpreted as a purely literal and, in many senses, legal document (a view preferred by dispensationalists). Darby and C.I. Scofield were two of the primary influences for popularizing dispensationalism and both were lawyers.

    Another common association of dispensationalism is literal iterpretations of prophecy resulting in the eschatological view of premillenialism which has been popularized by the dispensationalist Hal Lindsey in the Left Behind series.
     
  20. Grasshopper

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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