Dispensationalists and the State of Israel

Discussion in 'Politics' started by OldRegular, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. OldRegular

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    How has dispensational thought in this country affected our foreign policy, in particular that toward Israel?
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

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    As we are a secular constitutional republic, religious viewpoints should not play into our foreign policy at all.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    I did not ask if it should, I asked: How has dispensational thought in this country affected our foreign policy, in particular that toward Israel?
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    I think it would be relatively safe for you to scape goat the Dispensationalists about which you know little. They can't hurt you, they are a very small minority with no political clout. Recall that Neron Caesar (Nero) in the 'Nero fiddled while Rome burnt' myth blamed the fire on the minority of a minority group called the 'Christians'. Some of the ECF (early Church Fathers) thought the Beast from the Sea of Chaper 12 of Revelation (Antichrist?) would be Neron Ridivictus (Nero revived to live). So in actuallity, the two scape goat groups are much the same. So feel free.

    In this topic:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=54854&page=6

    an EschatologyTheology is being logically developed from the five basics of Fundamental Theology which some might call an Dispensational Eschatology Theology.
     
  5. go2church

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    I don't know for sure, but Israel is the third rail of politics. Say something negative or precevied to be less then 100% supportive of Israel and the phonelines jam and email flies. To bad really, but this comes from many on the far right motivated by their mistaken theology.
     
  6. webdog

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    The same way it's affected every other country thoughout time.
     
  7. OldRegular

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    It is a fact that liberals in this country could care less about the state of Israel, preferring the Arabs instead. Strangely the Jews in this country continue to vote 3 to 1 for democrats [as they did for Obama]. Guess they could care less about the state of Israel also!
     
  8. billwald

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    There is nothing in Orthodox, Catholic, Reformed, Lutheran, or Presbyterian theology (eschatology) that requires the existence of practicing Jews or a nation of Israel because the Church replaces Israel in history and prophecy. The Church never came out and plainly stated that it was OK to kill Jews but neither was killing Jews discouraged. Every Crusade began with a pogrom. Jews were not permitted to own farmland. Every run of bad luck . . . the black death and whatever, was blamed on the Jews. The first ghetto was created in the 1400's (?) on an island in Italy. Jewish historians write that Jews got much better treatment under Islam than under Christianity. Jews were almost universally hated. When Shakespere (sp?) wrote "The Merchant of Venice," he had never seen a Jew because Jews were forced out of England long before he was born.

    When Augustine used "dispensation," the word meant "historical era." Dispensationalism was invented in the middle 1850's in Scotland (?) and popularized by John Nelson Darby who honcho'd the Plymouth Brethern.

    Many Baptist heros of the faith, Ryrie, The guy who started the big mission in Chicago, Strong . . . were PBs. Dallas Theo was a PB stronghold for many years. Scofield's annotated Bible was first underwritten by the PBs. Watchman Nee (not his kid) was a PB.

    (Most) ALL Baptists were "reformed" until Darby invented Dispensationalism and the theological need for the Jews to rebuild the Temple so that Jesus could return.

    I met on and off for at least 10 years with the PBs. When it comes to loving neighbors and living out the Gospel they "outChristian" the rest of us but after 1987 (one generation after the establishment of Israel) I could no longer tolerate dispensational preaching and got "reformed." (fool me once, your fault . . . .)
     
  9. OldRegular

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    Watch out Bildwald they are coming after you!:tonofbricks:
     
  10. OldRegular

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    Watch out Bildwald they are coming after you!:tonofbricks:
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    Billwald: // (Most) ALL Baptists were "reformed" until Darby invented Dispensationalism and the theological need for the Jews to rebuild the Temple so that Jesus could return. //

    I'm teaching my brand of dispensation eschology Theology at:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=54854&page=6

    I'm only in about the second month of a two-year-long study of the subject. There I'm proceeding logically from the five Fundamentals of the Christian Faith to Ed's dispensational pre-tribuation rapture, pre-millinnial Second Coming, futurist Eschatological Theology. Not to late to join that discussion (actually everybody likes to debunk the easy stuf that has already been argued against: the dispensational Theology of Darby and Scofield - both of which are so unlike mine.) I stand head and shoulders about Darby and Scofield cause I noted (about 1973) that in 1964 the world stock of nuclear weapons enabled mankind to do most everything BAD in Revelation and nothing GOOD. Darby didn't know that when he taught his Theology back in 1828-1888. Scofield didn't know that when he helped the Fundamentalist Christians start the Fundamentalist (anti-liberal) Christian Theology Back in 1895-1921. In 1895 Cyrus Scofield started working for one of the church/Bible School of Moody (the great evangelist). Scofield was the great documenter via his Bible Comentary Notes that guided the evangelic, fundamentalist, conservative wings of protestantism. I even married into a KJV with Schofield's notes in it. So i read them at least back after 1963 when I married that Lady. I never really read Darby until after I developed most of Ed's dispensational pre-tribuation rapture, pre-millinnial Second Coming, futurist Eschatological Theology via the study of the Holy Bibles and the ministering of the Holy Spirit.

    Here is what I learned from a Jewish rabbinical student:

    When the Jewish Messiah comes he will do these three things (and that is how he will be known):

    1. Bring Peace to Israel
    2. Restore the Daily Sacrifice
    3. Rebuild the Temple

    As soon as peace is brought to Israel, the daily sacrifice can be restored, the Temple its self is used for the yearly sacrifice. The temple can be built while the daily sacrifice is taking place daily.

    The way I read the Torah & the Prophets & the writings of the followers of Yeshua Ben-Yoseph of Nazareth (also called the New Testament) is that whoever brings these three things will be recognized by the Jews as the Messiah. This is true even if it is the Anti-Messiah (Pseudo-Messiah, False Messiah) that does it.

    In my Dispentation Theology there is no need for the Jews to rebuild the Temple so that Jesus can return. They have 3.5 years to build it before the mid-tribulation period judgment crises when Antichrist enters the temple and declares himself G-d. Then most every Israeli/Jew in the world will see for themselves that Jesus is the much better Messiah. Thus shall all Israel be saved, as the prophets fore-told.
     
  12. Jerome

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    Is this "reformed"? Leading English Particular Baptist Pastor Hanserd Knollys's preaching in the 1600s:

    "Then shall come to pass that wonderful work of the Jews Conversion prophesied, Isa. 66.6,8. Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the Earth be made to bring forth in one day? Shall a Nation be born at once? And so all Israel shall be saved (as it is written) The Redeemer shall come in Zion, Isa. 59.20. And shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob, Rom.11.26,27. For this is my Covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. And all the Tribes of Judah and Israel being gathered, they shall all be Reunited into one Nation; which the Prophet Ezekiel shewed them by the parable of two sticks made one stick in his hand, Ezek. 37.15-22. And I will make them one Nation; And one King shall be King to them, Vers. 24. And they shall have one Shepherd. Vers. 27. My Tabernacle also shall be with them: Yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my People, Vers. 28. My Sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore." ---THE VVorld that Now is; AND THE VVorld that is to Come: Or the First and Second Coming of Jesus Christ. (1681)
     
  13. Ed Edwards

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    Well, I guess the opposite of 'Reformed'
    has always been 'Neo-Orthodox' :thumbs:
     

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