Disrespect to baby Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by abcgrad94, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
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    A friend of ours believes any image of Christ is an "idol," including nativity scenes with the baby Jesus. He says most evangelical Christians worship the nativity scene, and to prove it, he used this illustration: If he were to break, deface, or crush the baby in the manger, people would say it was a sign of disrespect to Christ. He believes we have borrowed an idol from the Roman Catholic church and that's one reason why he will not celebrate Christmas.

    I never heard this argument before, so I'll ask y'all, in your opinion, is removing, breaking, or damaging the "baby Jesus" part of a manger scene showing disrespect to Christ? Do you think nativity scenes are idols?
     
  2. matt wade

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    I don't think it is mutually inclusive situation. If someone came to my church and spray painted on the exterior walls, I would say that they are disrespecting God/Jesus. Does that mean I make the walls of my church an idol?
     
  3. Scarlett O.

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    If I had a nativity scene in my yard and someone sprayed graffiti all over the baby Jesus, I would consider that an act of disrespect towards Christ.

    NOT because of the damage to the piece of wood on which the baby was painted, but because of the intent of the heart of the person who defaced the image. Their only intent would be to mock the Christian faith that I possess.



     
  4. convicted1

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    I agree that we don't worship the doll in the nativity, but the One who came as a baby, born of a virgin woman. For someone to mar the image of what that doll represents, is the "ulterior motive" here. It's not that they disrespected the nativity scene, per se, rather, they marred the very image of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. It has much more to do with intent than anything else, IMHO.
     
  5. annsni

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    Usually someone has targeted the thing that they are destroying for a purpose so in a way yes, I would say that they were disrespecting Jesus because of targeting the baby Jesus in a nativity.

    However, I wouldn't consider it sacrilege - just stupid destruction. It's not an idol but something that we put up for the benefit of the community to remind us of Who this holiday is all about. If someone destroys it, they are attacking the idea behind what it represents - the Savior comes to earth to save. That would make me sad.
     
  6. annsni

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    Let me add in this: How would your friend feel if someone took his Bible and stomped on it then put it in a fire? His response to that would be telling:

    * Don't care.
    * Upset that his property was destroyed.
    * It was an attack on God.

    If it would be an attack on God or God's Word, then he has an idol as well.
     
  7. freeatlast

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    Lev 26:1 says;
    Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.
    I think that the manger scene could be an idol if it was used for worship. However if it is used just to give evidence of what the real message of Christmas is about I see nothing wrong with it and yes we should take offense if someone destroyed any part of the display as it would be a clear attack on what it represents and who we love.
    I would say in your friends case he should not put the display out as he evidently cannot do it without doubting Romans 14:23. Also based on 1Cor 8:13 if he brought it to my attention that he felt it wrong I would not put it out for his conscience sake.
     
  8. Salty

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    Disagree - he needs to realize that the navity is NOT an idol - unless he does worship it as such.

    Sounds like leagalism
     
  9. Mexdeaf

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    No one I know bows down to worship a manger. Now I know some who bow down to crucifixes. I have broken those before, on purpose and without remorse.
     
  10. freeatlast

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    I agree it (his belief) is legalism, but I am also commanded, as are you, not to destroy the faith of a brotheror sister for conscience sake. I have given up things several times that has nothing to do with truth all because some brother or sister's faith was weak and I did not want to cause them to stumble. That is the lesson of 1Cor 8:13
     
  11. abcgrad94

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    You make a great point, but I think it won't work in his case, as his problem is with man depicting a picture or image of Christ. He says it's disrespectful as "no one has seen God at any time." The Bible (or church building as pointed out in another post) do not have pictures or images of Christ so they must not be considered idols.

    He told us he won't be attending our church (or any church) over Christmas. Our nativity scene on the communion table offends him, and he believes Christmas came from the Catholic church as "Christ-mass."

    I've heard arguments from folks who don't celebrate Christmas, but never these particular ones. I am at a loss as to how to answer.
     
  12. HankD

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    Take it up notch.

    What if someone came to church and then threw a Bible on the floor and stomped on it?

    How about a hymnal?

    The Church service bulletin?

    HankD
     
  13. Mexdeaf

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    I don't think any of those things would really bother me. I would like to think that my concern would be for the soul of the person doing such things.

    I used to inwardly churckle because when I was in Mexico I was told it was a sin to place anything on top of my Bible or to place it directly on the floor. Of course I learned this only after being there for a few years and doing that quite frequently- since I had to talk with the Deaf, I often needed both hands free and sometimes there wasn't any other place to put the Bible.

    That's what happens when you idolize things.
     
  14. annsni

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    I wonder if our nativity would offend him?

    [​IMG]

    (this was a pic off the 'net - ours will go up next week on the front lawn of the church)
     
  15. plain_n_simple

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    It's ok to have a nativity scene to ceebrate that He came to earth That statue is not Jesus, and Jesus is not a baby anymore. He is the annointed Christ, seated at the right hand of God. The point of it all is Jesus the man, died for our sin, was buried, and rose again the third day.
     
  16. HankD

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    This has given me pause to think everytime I read it...

    Exodus 25
    18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
    19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
    20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
    21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
    22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.​

    Of all places ... in the Holy Place.​

    HankD​
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    He is certainly spreading it around! :smilewinkgrin:
     
  18. Mexdeaf

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    Umm, did you ask him how he knows what Jesus looks like? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  19. plain_n_simple

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    "Umm, did you ask him how he knows what Jesus looks like?"

    According to those paintings hanging in most churches, Jesus was a mid-thirties white man with long hair. I suppose the baby Jesus looks like the white baby found on Gerber baby jars....
     
  20. John Toppass

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    I think anytime we intentionally destroy something that is not ours to destroy then it is sin and sin is disrespect toward God. I do not know anyone who worships the manger scene.

    This reminds me of a funeral of a dear lady. During the viewing, several of her friends took exception to the fact that there was not a Bible by her right hand. They told the son that he should do something immediately! He told them that his mother did not need to read the book because she was in the presence of the Author.
     
    #20 John Toppass, Nov 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2011

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