Divisions. Denominations.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by defenderofthefaith, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. defenderofthefaith

    defenderofthefaith
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    In the world we live in today, the 'christian faith' is riddled with different sects, unions, groups, denominations, or 'churches'.
    For example - Catholicism, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodist, Jehovah's Witness, Pentecostal, ect ect.
    But that's not all! There are also divisions...among the main divisions!
    Since this is a baptist-board, I'll point out that there are around 85 different sub-denominations, associations, conferences, conventions, fellowships, groups, unions, ect, that all go under the name "baptist".

    But what do the scriptures teach about denominationlism?
    John 17:20-21
    "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."


    Christ Jesus himself prayed for "them also which shall believe on me through their[apostles] word" (Christians) and he prayed that "they all may be one" and then he likened it to as God and Christ are one.

    Ephesians 4:1-6
    "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
    With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
    Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
    There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."


    Paul urged the Ephesians to endeavour "to keep the unity of the Spirit" and he also told them that there was "one body" (the Church) and "one faith".
    Why is it then that today's "christian faith" is torn into hundreds of different groups all with different teachings?

    God hates divisions among Christians (the brethren, for we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.)!
    Proverbs 6:16,19
    "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him...
    ...A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."


    Jesus warned against division! Why do churches not heed this warning???

    Matthew 12:25
    "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:"

    Acts 20:28-30
    "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them."


    The Elders at the church in Ephesus were warned by Paul about future divisions that would come among the flock (church) and men who would speak "perverse things, to draw away disciples after them".


    1 Corinthians 11:16-19
    "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
    Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
    For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
    For there must be also heresies among you,
    that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."


    Paul said that there were divisions among the Corinthians therefore "there must be also heresies among you"! Heresies in Christ's church! This is certainly not what Christ had in mind when he prayed that we "may all be one" (John 17:20-21)

    Paul, in the first Chapter of 1 Corinthians begged the Corinthians to have no divisions among the brethren!!
    1 Corinthians 1:10
    "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

    How is it that all these "christians faiths" continue on ignoring the fact that we are not "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement"!?

    Paul also told the Corinthians that division is carnal (not spiritual).
    1 Corinthians 3:3
    "For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"

    And we also see that the Romans were warned greatly against those which cause divisions.

    Romans 16:17-18
    "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
    For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."


    We are also warned in 2 John.
    2 John 9-11
    "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
    For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds
    ."


    The scriptures are filled with warnings against divisions, false doctrines, lies, hereies, ect, ect!!

    1 Timothy 1:1-2
    "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron
    ;"


    1 John 4:1
    "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

    So, why is there so much division! Why is there so many differences in teachings, doctrines, beliefs, ect!?
    Surely there must be just one true faith (Ephesians 4:5), one true doctrine (2 John 9), one true church (Romans 12:4-5).
     
  2. DHK

    DHK
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    Because we all have a sin nature.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    This is a familiar Church of Christ mantra.

    There are probably about 10,000 Churches of Christ in the USofA - each is unto itself a different sect, union, group, denomination, or 'church'. Each Church of Christ was started following the 'woe is the denomination church.' mantra. Unfortunately, there are only about 40,000 different sects, unions, groups, or denominations. That means at least 1/4 of the different sects, unions, groups, or denominations were started to combat the TOO MANY DENOMINATIONS problem. Why are there so many different sects, unions, groups, or denominations started because there are too many different sects, unions, groups, and denominations?

    Anyway, I'm always naughty about this.
    My first wife of 34 years was the Piano Player of the Church I now belong to for 27 years. But Jesus needed her piano playing more than I did so she went home to be with the Lord. So I married the the organ player of my church and we have been married 7 years, less a month. And I married 7 lovely grandchildren as well!

    OP: // Surely there must be just one true faith (Ephesians 4:5), one true doctrine (2 John 9), one true church (Romans 12:4-5). //

    Try believing that. Then for your homework figure out how wonderful God is to have figured out how to serve the interest of BILLIONS of Christians by giving them different feeding posts.

    I know a corner near my house. A person with a $20 DENOMINATION paper money or a $50 DENOMINATION paper money or a non-DENOMINATION (well from $5.00 up to maybe $30K) plastic money can buy:

    pizza - 3 places
    chineese - 2 places
    Mex-Tex - 2 places
    quick stop/7-11 type food - 3 places
    burgers - 3 places
    chicken - 2 places
    doghnut - 1 place


    Does anybody sit around briefing people on a overhead projector about their concern that (sorry, my spell check doesn't work right) there are too many denominations of money or too many denominations of food dispensing around? How dull the world would be if all money was in $3 paper bills with the picture of Hillary Clinton on it? How dull the world would be if all food dispensing points were generic slop kictions?
     
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Hey, I think I know which "true church" you're talking about, that holds to the true faith and true doctrine.

    Baptists.
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Now before anybody points out that there are 40-lebben kinds of Baptists, let me clarify which Baptists I'm taking about.

    Those who old the truth regarding baptism and eternal security.

    The truth regarding baptism:
    1. For regenerated believers only.
    2. By immersion
    3. No saving efficacy.
    4. The foregoing by a NT church of like faith and order.
     
  6. defenderofthefaith

    defenderofthefaith
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    If this type of baptists are the "true church" then I recommend they change their name and seperate themselves from the 80+ other sects of the Baptist doctrine.

    The true church that Christ built is not to be connected with, confused with, or associated with any type of church that is not the true church.
     
  7. DHK

    DHK
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    The name does not define the church; the doctrine does.
    For example, if any church believes in the heresy of baptismal regeneration, one of the earliest heresies in church history, then they would not be part of that "true church," so-called. For we all know that baptism cannot save. That is just one example.
     
  8. defenderofthefaith

    defenderofthefaith
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    ....What?

    I do believe that.
    Wanna know why?
    Cause thats what the Bible teaches.
    I know.
    Its crazy.
    WHO would believe in that?
    :thumbs:

    Since God is all about serving our interest.
    I thought we were the ones who serve God? Not the other way around.

    ....What?


    Isn't the church, the faith, the gospel, the truth - more important than money/food (as in your example)?
     
  9. defenderofthefaith

    defenderofthefaith
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    True it does not necessarily define it but it does represent it, and again...
    The true church that Christ built is not to be connected with, confused with, or associated with any type of church that is not the true church.

    The name a church has does hold influence and power.
    I believe in the idea of "calling Bible things by Bible names and doing Bible things in Bible ways"
    So what was the church called back in the New Testament?

    - My church. (Matthew 16:18)
    - The church. (Acts 8:1)
    - Church of God. (1 Corinthians 1:2; Acts 20:28)
    - The body of Christ. (Ephesians 4:12)
    - The church of the living God. (1 Timothy 3:15)
    - Church of the first born. (Hebrews 12:23)
    - Churches of Christ. (Romans 16:16)

    So why would the true church that Christ bought with his own blood, the church that is led by Christ (as our High Priest) the church thats purpose is to praise and glorify God...not be called by a Bible name, by a name of deity?
    The divisions in names, doctrines, and beliefs surely seperate us and only a church with Christ's name, with Christ's doctrines, and beliefs that are of Christ can be the "true church" we've been talking about.

    I will conveniently direct you to my 3 posts (last page) on the Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation thread and you will see a large rebuttal of all the arguments and objections against the essentiality of water baptism unto Salvation.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    As one who has studied many religions (I know which are correct and which are in error) - I cannot tell the difference between a group that says 'there is one right name for a church (local), if it ain't that name, then it ain't a church' AND the one-Savior-one-name cult of Messianic Jews. Their name for my Savior is NOT any that I use (or can remember, for that matter). In my KJV1611 Edition and my Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition, my Lord and Savior is called 'Iesus'. In my NIV my Lord and Savior is called 'Jesus'. My Hebrew Speaking friends (except the one namers) call him 'Yeshua'.

    My church (local) is called by the name of the street upon which the building is located. The nearest 'Church of Christ (CoC)' is on the same street. We get lost (spatially disoriented) people at both places confused with the names. The churches are called:

    Alameda Baptist Church (ABC) & Alameda Church of Christ (ACC)

    The Baptists believe in Christ, the CoC doesn't believe in Baptists.

    Or as they also say (Humor warning):

    Atheists do not recognize God.
    Jews do not recognize Christ.
    Baptists don't recognize each other at the Liquor Store.
    :laugh:
     
  11. DHK

    DHK
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    I can conveniently direct you to countless of threads throughout this and other forums on the BB, and throughout the years where baptismal regeneration has been thoroughly debunked, every verse put forth refuted, answered to, explained, and in much detail.
    But alas!
    A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia
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    So typical of cultic groups - to attack the "denominations" of Christian churches. This is one of the tactics of Mormons.

    All who believe in the true Jesus Christ, saved by faith and regenerated by the Holy Spirit, are one in Christ, no matter the denomiation.

    The Churches of Christ do not consider Baptists or other Christians outside their church to be saved, from what I understand.
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    // Isn't the church, the faith, the gospel, the truth - more important than money/food (as in your example)? //

    Luk 8:10 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
    And he sayd, Vnto you it is giuen to know the secrets of ye kingdome of God, but to other in parables, that when they see, they shoulde not see, and when they heare, they should not vnderstand.

    Of course the church, the faith, the gospel, the truth is more important than money and food. But my example is a parable, which you were obviously unable to receive not knowing the truths of the church, the faith, the gospel, and the Truth.

    And here is theTruth I learned from a guitar singing CoC preacher's kid: the Truth is not a lofty idea or ideal, the Truth is the God/man Messiah Jesus. It is politically correct (PC) to be seeking the Truth, but if you ever find the Truth - you will be damned by the world system (AKA: the New World Order /NOW/ & the old Paganism).
     
  14. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Defender and anyone else must first establish from Scripture the significance of church names on a building as essential.

    Throwing out a bunch of designations would not do it.
     
  15. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Cocers who think like that are a sad bunch.

    The positions they cling to are mostly manmade traditions that they use as weapons against those who do not agree with them.
     
  16. defenderofthefaith

    defenderofthefaith
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    It amazes me at how everyone's defense suddenly becomes "insult the church of Christ!"
    :sleep:

    Okay....please...conveniently direct me to these countless threads.
    I've got time.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK
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    I direct you to the same URL that you posted.
    That is a good one for starters. It is current, and one that you are sadly failing to gain any ground.
    Your salvation is a salvation by works.
    If salvation is not by grace it is no salvation at all.
     
  18. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele
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    Yes, this is still a common problem in the Churches of Christ: they do not consider those outside their church group to be saved Christians.

    It is by no means universal, however. It is becoming less the case as time passes.

    I know of multiple Church of Christ congregations in my area that do not believe this. Of course, there are self-named Church of Christ places that would refuse to acknowledge such Church of Christ congregations as legitimate.
     
  19. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele
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    Now, let me reply to the subject of this thread.

    Divisions are one thing. Denominations are something else.

    Divisions are where one group withdraws from others and has as little as possible to do with them. Another word that describes this is "faction."

    Many denominations are simply associations of congregations with no desire to be withdrawn from any other church group.

    If I am not mistaken, the Bible prohibits "divisions" and "factions." I would say that if a church group was trying to stay `unwarmly' separate from `everyone else,' it is guilty of this.

    The phrase "one true church" came up. There is only one church. Agreed. It is made of people on one foundation: that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God." At Matthew 16:15-8, Jesus Christ said “I will build My church” (NBV) on that precept.

    The word translated "church" is used in ancient Greek culture about the community of followers of Pythagoras.* This parallels how Christians are followers of Jesus Christ. Before the time of Acts 11:26, Christians were called “disciples”; “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (NASB). Greek translated “disciples” is also translated “followers” (ICB). Jesus Christ's church is the community of His followers.

    How does Christ build His church? Acts 2:47 examples how “the Lord added to them day by day those |who were being saved” (ASV|NASB); the church is built of people added to it by the Lord.

    We do not set the boundaries of the Lord's church by our decisions of whom to fellowship with. The Lord sets the boundaries of His church. Any Christian is a member of His church whether we accept that Christian for fellowship or not. It is sheer presumption for mortals to think that they can determine the boundaries of the Lord's church.

    There is only one church. All Christians are in the same church whether we accept it or not. Those who find it unacceptable that they might be in the same church as `those other Christians' better hope the Lord does not grant their wish.

    ____
    *Arndt, Gingrich, et al, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, page 240.
     

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