Divorce and remarriage

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by le bel, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. le bel

    le bel
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    What is known as revolving door marriages. When is it okay? Some say abuse or adultery, but they also remarry.

    I've always been told to remove oneself from the situation and seek counseling, but not to divorce.

    Lord Jesus said divorce was allowed (not ordered or expected) for the hardness of human hearts: (Matthew 19:8). He taught that man ought not to put a marriage asunder because his ideal is one man, one woman as an Inseparable unity (Matthew 19:6). God spoke of how he hates putting away (divorce) (Malachi 2:16).

    The Apostle Paul stresses that if you do harden your heart and separate and/or divorce, then you must either remain unmarried or be reconciled as the only two Biblical options (I Corinthians 7:1011). Also, Paul stresses the law of God as our authority in this matter and that as long as our spouse lives, marriage is intact, no matter what men may say or do (I Corinthians 7:39, Romans 7:1-3).

    I knew a lady who was married for 21 years when she discovered her husband was a "homosexual" or so he thought. She didn't tolerate his behavior and moved out, they both sought counseling and are still together today.
     
  2. Johnv

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    This is a subjective term. I myself could fall into this category, since I'm in my third marriage (my first passed away, my second committed adultery).

    Now, if you're talking about folks who divorce because they "fell out of love" and the like, not only should they be shot, but they should have to pay for the bullet (I'm jesting of course, but only somewhat :eek: )

    Scripture permits divorce in cases of adultery and desertion (abuses qualifiy as a form of desertion). In all other cases, counselling is a good way to go. However, saving the exceptions noted, I would not encourage a spouse to remove oneself from the home, since statistically, they are unlikley to return.

    This is not a scriptural mandate. The verse even have Paul saying "Here say I, not the Lord". While divorce is scripturally limited as to when it's permitted, there is no scripture mandate for a divorced person to remain single all their lives. In fact, Paul says that it better for a person to marry that to be consumed with sexual desire.
    I'm glad for them. In my case, my wife left me for another, and went to go live with him. Over the course of several years, it became clear that I was permitting the adultery to continue, and told her to make a decision. She refused, so I filed for divorce. She has since married her boyfriend. It's clear here to me that I was free to marry. If my wife had taken me back, I'd have done so in a heartbeat, warts and all.
     
  3. le bel

    le bel
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    Remain celibate if you are separated or divorced, or be reconciled to your spouse (I Corinthians 7:10-11). These are the only two options for an obedient believer until his or her spouse dies.

    This has always been the teachings of the churches I attend, then again I'm an IFB.

    Just because one comits adultery, it doesn't permit the other party to walk out without trying(obviously not your case). This is the case with many I have spoken to, no counseling, working things through, just leave without a thought.

    One is expected to work at keeping the marriage together. Many think it's just fine to walk out because they don't feel warm fuzzies anymore. The whole bit about "I fell out of love" grates on my nerves or leaving because one is seemingly unhappy.

    Marriage is not all about happiness and when someone thinks it should be when it isn't, they leave.

    I know some who believe desertion/adultery and remarriage is fine, but I also know many who don't. Both sides cite/interpret scripture that correlate with their stance.

    I asked my Associate Pastor about this and even he said the same.
     
  4. Johnv

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    That is untrue. In I Corinthians 7:10-11, Paul says "I say, not the Lord", meaning he's giving his suggestion in wisdom here. It's worthy of consideration, but not scripturally mandated. Scripture is clear here that this is not a biblical mandate.

    Sure it can be. Of course, happiness does not mean "feeling good". True scriptural happiness (blessedness) is an attitude you choose.
     
  5. le bel

    le bel
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    Sure it can be. Of course, happiness does not mean "feeling good". True scriptural happiness (blessedness) is an attitude you choose. [/QB][/QUOTE]

    I know it can be, but it's not ALways about feelings and farm fuzzies. Wine and dine, presents, romantic dinners, movies, and fancy outings, just to name a few. Many get caught up in the feelings and emotions and use that as a guide to marital happiness.

    This is actually a discussion I'm having on another board and many gave valid reasons for divorce, desertion/adultery and abuse, but a many also mention "falling out of love" or being no longer happy as a valid reason.

    This being a reason I see all too often, sigh.
     
  6. Gershom

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    What are "farm fuzzies"? Never heard of that. Hmmm..
     
  7. le bel

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    LMBO, I meant warm, I have a baby in my lap. ;)
     
  8. NateT

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    Two points here:
    1) Isn't it possible that Paul could be saying "Jesus spoke of this while on Earth, and I am repeating what he said." And then when he gets to this verse he says "We do not have it recorded anywhere that Jesus said this."

    2) If this is Paul's 'suggestion' and 'worthy of consideration, but not scripturally mandated.' Why is it a part of scripture?

    Obviously, I feel like the reading in #1 is to be preferred, but I haven't had the chance to ask anyone who hold to your view these two questions, so in a sense, I'm picking on you [​IMG]
     
  9. Gershom

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    I like warm fuzzies. Better than having cold fuzzies.
     
  10. KenH

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    Divorce and remarriage is a very, very difficult topic in today's world to deal with. It is important to deal graciously with those going through a tough situation.
     
  11. le bel

    le bel
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    I like warm fuzzies. Better than having cold fuzzies. </font>[/QUOTE]I do as well.
     
  12. Glory-to-God

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    All I know is God is a forgiving God.
    Without repeating what others have already said...there are some Biblical guidlines to follow. But at the same time we are under grace and not the law. Gods best would be to do all you could possibly do to stay married and work things out...through forgiviness,selflessness and counseling. But if a spouse decides to just up and leave and God knows your heart...I do not see why one cannot get married again.

    I personally didn't want to marry a man who had been married since I had not been married. But God sent me a man after much prayer...that I KNEW was his will for my life. I figured hey I had sinned by having a son out of wedlock so who am I to judge ? Saving grace was his kids were 14 and 16 at the time so I didn't have to raise kids who were not raised the way I would have raised them.

    God is good ! [​IMG]
    Sharon
     
  13. StraightAndNarrow

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    Another Biblical perspective which no one ever seems to recognize. Maybe Luke and Paul agreed with the perspective that "marriage is not all about happiness."


    Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

    1Cr 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
    1Cr 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
     
  14. bapmom

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    Luke 20:35 is talking about our condition after resurrection.

    The other ones are discussing the merits of being single, so that those who are NOT married need not be desparate to remarry. They need to concentrate on using their "freedom in singleness" as a means to serve God more. I don't believe they are talking about happiness within marriage.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    When Paul is writing Scripture, it is inspired (2 Tim 3:16). Therefore, to say that this is not a Scriptural mandate is to deny what Paul actually said. His point of "I say this, not the Lord," is to point out that he is not quoting something from the Lord's earthly ministry. He is still writing Scripture and therefore is giving a scriptural mandate.

    Paul also says in 1 Cor 7:27-28 that is a person loosed from a wife (i.e., divorced) remarries, they have not sinned. While divorce and remarriage is a sensitive subject, and while divorce is always the result of sin and never God's best option for life, let's be careful to say everything that God says, not just the parts that fit our particular view.
     
  16. TexasSky

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    Okay,

    I have a lot of mixed feelings on a lot of this.

    First - to address divorce: I believe that Christ wants us to love as He loves. If both spouses do this divorce shouldn't be an issue. If both spouses don't have hard hearts there will probably be no abuse or cheating or anything to cause the kind of pain that makes it impossible to continue in a marriage.

    So - the real sin in most divorces in the first place is failure to love like Christ meant for you to love.

    Like every other time in our life - Christ will forgive that.

    Christ wants people to be happy. If you are a Christian, and you were abandoned by a spouse, or they cheated on you, or they abused you, and you left and sought God's will and He lead you to someone else - and you love them and marry them. No one has the right to say that was not God's will for your life except God.

    You are still a child of God.
    You are still loved by God.
    If you wake thanking God for putting the new spouse in your life, and they are Godly - then it is probably making God smile to see His child happy.

    I've heard some say, "If you committed sin that destroyed your marriage, stay single. If you were left, then you have a Godly right to remarry."

    I don't know if that is accurate or not.
    I do know that God would rather see a smiling family, praising Him, with a new spouse - than see two bitter, resentful, single people who are blaming Him for their loneliness. I also know He would rather see happy children than children living in poverty because a single parent is afraid to remarry.

    How do I know that God prefers happiness?
    I look at His word.
    The people who "sinned" and yet were dearly loved by God after that "sin." Moses, David, even Paul.

    Second - regarding "I, not the Lord."

    Paul wrote letters to people, personal friends, offering Christian counseling, and Paul very carefully said, "This is me - not God."

    Now, the bible picks up the counsel he gave in those letters by picking up the entire letter. However - it ALSO picks up the disclaimer. "This is me, not God."

    Some people say, "It is in there, it is Godly." Well, yes, the disclaimer IS in there. I think God is responsible for that disclaimer being in there. I think GOD wanted you to know, "This is NOT my idea, its Paul's." I think GOD wanted you to know the difference in wonderful - HUMAN - FALLIABLE Paul's thinking and in God's rules.

    So, when you say, "ignore the disclaimer" that Paul gave and treat what follows like it is God and not Paul - aren't you saying, "Ignore part of scripture". Aren't you saying, "Nevermind that Paul said it is just man speaking, pretend it was God speaking."

    Why do you "ignore" what Paul felt it was important to say, "This is ME, not God, talking."

    To me this is a very important issue. We do it all the time right here. "Scripture says this," vs, "Well, the scripture doesn't say, but I think."

    What WE, as humans think, is NOT what God told us, and we usually try to clarify, "This is just my opinion."

    Well, Paul was JUST a human being.
    A wonderful, spiritual, missionary from God whose writing was inspired by God, but when Paul says, "This is just my opinion, not God's," we should pay attention and separate Paul's opinion from God's. Otherwise, why did Paul bother to make the distinction? If the distinction was NOT important, wouldn't he just let it go as God's words?
     
  17. Johnv

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    That is a ridiculous position. It's clear that Paul is not giving a mandate. He's giving his opinion. His opinion is indeed worthy of consideration, but to call it mandatory for all Christians is adding to scripture.

    In fact, you rightly point out that Paul in 1Cor 7:27-28 says that is a person loosed from a wife, who marries, does not sin. If the above were a mandate, then Paul contradicts himself. If, however, the above is the ideal, then Paul does not contradict himself.
     
  18. StraightAndNarrow

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    I agree about Luke 35. My mistake. The other passage says that it is godd for single people to remain single and in fact Paul believes that that is the best approach. It doesn't say anything about being desperate to marry. Our society has come up with that view.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    That is a ridiculous position. It's clear that Paul is not giving a mandate. He's giving his opinion. His opinion is indeed worthy of consideration, but to call it mandatory for all Christians is adding to scripture.</font>[/QUOTE]So you don't believe that all Scripture is inspired by God? Talk about ridiculous. There is not much to discuss if we disagree on teh very basic nature of Scripture as God has revealed it to us.

    There is no contradiction. They are addressing different aspects. Of course, we have been through this before so I won't get real involved again. I just wanted to point out two fallacies that were being bandied about without respect for Scripture's teaching.
     
  20. Johnv

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    Yes, I do. You know that. Inspired is not synonymous with mandated. Proper scriptural context is in order, lest we forbid people from sitting in the same chair used by a menstruating woman.
    Since scripture does not forbid a person who has divorced for proper and scriptural reasons from marrying again, it stands to reason that no such contradiction exists. It's clear from Paul's wrirings that he would rather have me marry than to live a life lusting or fornicating.
     

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