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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by n/a, Oct 9, 2004.
Can a man be divorced, and STILL serve his church in deaconship?
There's a very long, large thread on divorce plus two polls. Do a search and you can read the opinions on divorce there.
If Jesus okayed the divorce then certainly why would it not be okay to serve as a deacon. Would it not be true that if Jesus said it was okay then who is man to condemn what Jesus okayed. Jesus gave the rerasons for divorce.
What I have usually found is that people who have been divorced are tougher on divorce than those who have not.
B.H. Carroll who started Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary was divorced and pastored a church in Waco at the time. In later years after his picture was painted the cigar he was holding was painted over. It is the picture of him hanging in the rotunda area as you walk up the front steps. Somebody didn't like the truth of history so the cigar was painted over.
Well Jim and I have been married 34 years tomorrow and neither had been married before so that's not true here!
Not in Independent fundamental Baptist Church of the Pharisees. A man could have been a total whoremonger befoer he was saved and another man could have been faithful to an unfaithful wife which led to a divorce and he cant be a deacon but the man who had sex with 100 women but didnt get divorced is more qualified to be a deacon.
Besides, in most IFB churches today deacons are nothing more that a bunch of stuffed shirts who are the ego-maniacal pastor's body gaurds.
I refer to a "hidden purpose" in
Divorced Deacons (Part 2)
Well Jim and I have been married 34 years tomorrow and neither had been married before so that's not true here! </font>[/QUOTE]Congratulations! I am certain both of you are a tremendous example to others. It is encouraging to me when I read what you write about him and how you are with him all the way. A man could hardly be more blessed than that.
What is the current condition regarding his employment?
I think you misunderstood what I meant. What I meant is that those people who have been divorced would not wish that on anyone. They know first hand what divorce is like and the pain it causes.
I thank God I am in the same condition as you. My wife gets more atractive every year. She is a tremendous blessing. One thing that I asked God was to give me what I needed not just what I thought I wanted. He certainly answered my prayer in so many ways that I am still discovering.
Isn't it great to know God?
"Can a man be divorced, and STILL serve his church as a deacon?"
This is more of the same apples and oranges interpretation. "Husband of one woman" refers to a man who is faithful and who is a Godly leader of his OWN house. To say that a man has been divorced or widowed cannot be a deacon is to misunderstand the whole intent of this verse.
But we as baptists tend to have a habit of doing that! If a verse can possibly be construed in a legalistic fashion we'll do it! Ugh!!!
"Can a man be divorced, and STILL serve his church as a deacon?"
This is NOT more of the same apples and oranges interpretation. The phrase ‘Husband of one woman’ refers to a man who has never been married to any other women than his present wife.
Unfortunately, we as Baptists tend to have a strong habit of ignoring what the Bible says if we would rather that it said something different. Ugh!!! When it is pointed out what the Bible actually says, we reply, “That’s nothing but legalism!”
For futher enlightment, please continue in my follow-up post........
Divorced Deacon (Part 2)
Especially you, Craigbythesea..........
mainly because you sir, are WRONG!!!!!
KJV does NOT say,
"husband of one woman"
"Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife"
You need to follow up in Divorced Deacons (Part 2)
I have no 'hidden purpose'. Divorce is a sin and is only permitted for one reason. Then add in that a deacon is to be head of his own household. If his previous wife committed adultery and desserted him, how was he in charge of his household?
The Bible says later that for a church to help a widow, she had to be the wife of one man. Scripture is quite clear about what we should expect from our pastors, teachers, elders, deacons, leaders.... and divorce is NOT acceptable.
I'm off to teach Sunday School so I'll expound more later.
Mal 2:16 -
"For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one's garment with violence," Says the Lord of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously."
Mt 5:31 -
"Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mt 19:3 -
The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?"
Mt 19:7 -
They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"
Mt 19:8 -
He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Mr 10:2 -
The Pharisees came and asked Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" testing Him.
Mr 10:4 -
They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her."
1Co 7:11 -
But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.
1Co 7:12 -
But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.
1Co 7:13 -
And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.
So if a deacon's daughter has a child out of wedlock, should the church remove him from service? How else can we apply this, in the way that you suggest? His teenager getting arrested for smoking pot? His wife being known as a gossip? His daughter getting caught with a boy in the choir room making out?
Well Moses mudered a man could he lead a church? Not according to many but God wanted him to lead the people. So where does that put us today? I have heard a man who had murdered people who now leads a large ministry.
Again I go back to the issue of B.H. Carroll who started Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. If the SBC does not believe in helping men who are divorced men to be a pastor then they need to tear down the seminary and get rid of al those traces of sin and declare Carroll's theology and practice wrong. But I have yet to read or hear anyone of those men who claim the SBC is liberal ever take a stance against Carroll's past. That tells me they will preach one thing on Sunday and do another during the week on their own. I have seen this kind of nonsense before. If we believe something then we must live and practice according to what we believe. If those pastors believe a pastor should never be divorced then they must leave the SBC or make their voices heard to declare it wrong and declare B.H. Carroll wrong. If they refuse to do anything then their words and deeds do not match and they are a hypocrite.
If there is anyone who preaches in an SBC church on Sunday who believes a pastor should not ever be divorced then he has one of there options. He needs to quit preaching that, leave the SBC or make his voice heard in opposition to the SBC leaders and have Carroll's theology declared wrong. If he doesn't then his words and deeds do not match.
Scripture doesn't say a man cannot hold revivals or preach if he's divorced, been in prison, etc. It says he cannot be a pastor or deacon. God can and does use those who had hard lives to help lead others to HIM.
A PASTOR or DEACON should be men of the highest intergrity and morals. Our church passes out a list of every male church member who is eligible. The men are asked to contact the church to have their name removed before we vote for deacons if they do not fit the scriptural criteria or if they feel they are not equipped for the job, don't believe they could give their best at this time, etc. No divorced man is put before the people as a potential deacon unless he doesn't respond and it's not known. However, the chance of an 'unknown' being chosen as deacon in a church with over 1,100 members is pretty slim.
ScottEmerson, if the children are underage and living at home.... yes. As for the gossiping wife, he should not have been elected in the first place if his wife doesn't also meet the criteria set forth.
There are men who would not agree to serve but would not want to contact a pastor or someone else to admit they don't qualify. I know of a pastor that happened to and he knew about two of these men on a list who were having a homosexual relationship that the church did not know about except one of their wives. It was the custom of the church to do the same thing you said. But when it came time to vote these men had not asked to be removed so it came to a vote and the pastor had to ask the congregation to wait until another time to vote. Leadership is not a democratic vote. It is proven first in service.
Whatever happened to prayer first?
If a man is not already leading in something what makes you think he qualifies? It is all about making disciples. If a man is not presently making disciples then he does not qualify. The most basic quality of a leader is that he is leading. If he is not leading, no title will ever make him a leader. Every leader in the NT was about making disciples. So must we.
In one church I pastored they did what your church does. When I came one of the men told me he really didn't want to be a deacon but because someone put his name on a list he thought maybe he was wrong. when I had to deal with him he was a very nice man but was not a leader. With some personal encouragement he could have been an excellent deacon but he was not ready at the time. He was put in a position of failure and not encouragement. I could have worked with him in the areas where he needed help but instead he was a part of the team. He was ready to get off whan I talked with him a few times. In a way it was too much for him at the time. We need to be careful to encourage one another and not hinder their growth by unwise decisions and choices for them.
Our choices of leaders must be seen in proven leadership and prayer first not a compilation of names and then weed out those who don't cut it.
And if he isn't leading his home, he doesn't qualify. Now we've gone round in a circle. Divorce under any circumstance isn't leading your home.