Do Arminians Believe Babies Are Saved?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by KenH, Sep 21, 2002.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    Consider all of the hundreds of millions, if not billions, of those who have died in the womb, as infants, as young children, as those without the mental ability to believe. Do Arminians believe these will be in heaven? If so, what does that do to the Arminian position that more people will be in hell than in heaven?

    Ken

    [ September 21, 2002, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  2. Ray Berrian

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    Arminian babies are all saved. Calvinistic babies have to wait until the judgment to find out if they were elect or non-elect. Just kidding!
     
  3. russell55

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    But Ray, you forgot to answer the last part of the question: What does this do to the position that there will be more people in hell than in heaven?
     
  4. ForumChaplain

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    For me, the bible does not answer this one. Where God is silent, i shall ve also. I DON'T KNOW.
     
  5. KenH

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    Then, I humbly submit, you should quit trying to argue that more people will be in hell than in heaven.

    But, on a more somber note, do you then consider it at least possible that God would send an aborted baby to hell? Surely you don't, Brother Chappie. Surely you don't. [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  6. ScottEmerson

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    Then, I humbly submit, you should quit trying to argue that more people will be in hell than in heaven.

    But, on a more somber note, do you then consider it at least possible that God would send an aborted baby to hell? Surely you don't, Brother Chappie. Surely you don't. [​IMG]

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]What the BIble is silent on: The salvation of children.

    What the Bible is not silent on: That heaven will be filled by "few," and hell will be filled by "many."
     
  7. KenH

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    Arminianism is such a dark, depressing theological system. [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  8. BobRyan

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    Well then mabye we can just "make stuff up" to get a better less depressing system - when we find that the Bible is silent?

    To him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin. (Babies may be in).

    But Christ STILL says that the FEW are on the narrow road and FEW there are that find it. Babies aren't trying to find anything.

    Christ's words still spell doom for Calvinism's arbitrary selection of the "FEW" system.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. tyndale1946

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    Ray said:
    Ray if you're not a good boy I'm going to move this question to the Womans Forum and let them get a hold of you :eek: ... Just kidding [​IMG] ... Brother Glen :D
     
  10. KenH

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    Bob,

    It is apparently your system that aims for few to be in heaven. And apparently your system has no qualms about babies being in hell. [​IMG]

    Ken

    [ September 21, 2002, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  11. tyndale1946

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    All the babies are in Gods hand... even those that have life but never experienced it... I expect to see them all in heaven in their full resurrected bodily form. God knows who all his children are and we should leave it like that. How can we finite mortal sinful creatures understand the infinite eternal holy working of the God of all glory unless he has told us in his record the Bible. The rest we should except with an eye of Faith and rest in his infinite eternal love for all his children!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  12. ForumChaplain

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    Then, I humbly submit, you should quit trying to argue that more people will be in hell than in heaven.

    But, on a more somber note, do you then consider it at least possible that God would send an aborted baby to hell? Surely you don't, Brother Chappie. Surely you don't. [​IMG]

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]Ken:
    The fact that this is stated in the bible seems to just go right over your head. Why do you continue your effort to attribute that to me, i posted the scriptures for you to see.. Didn't i.

    Are you suggesting that God has criteria to define those that he has chosen. If he saves all aborted babies, is not abortion a good thing.{another tear} Should we abort more that God may save more.

    Surely, i don't know.....
     
  13. ForumChaplain

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    Arminianism is such a dark, depressing theological system. [​IMG]

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]Satan only created one thing worse, he called that Calvinism....
     
  14. Bro. James Reed

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    Scott,
    Revelation 7:9-17 Talks about the "number" of those that will be in Heaven. It says "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and and kindreds, and people, and tongues..." Remember that a "few" souls in God's eyes could be "a great multitude, which no MAN could number." I'm not going to sit here and claim I know how many will be there, but I do know that it will be more than you or I could number. In God's Love, Bro. James
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Revelation 7:9-17 Talks about the "number" of those that will be in Heaven but Rev 7 is not written in the form of a Contrast between the number saved and the number lost

    Matt 7 IS written in the form of a contrast between the number saved and the number lost

    That point is not overlooked by those whose doctrine can afford to admit it.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. BobRyan

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    If I made it appear that Arminians authored Matt 7 then I apologize - Matt 7's contrast is scripture.

    The "contrast" is between the relative size of the group on the wide road vs the size of the group that finds the narrow road.

    Babies are not "seeking" they are not "choosing" they are not on either road.

    One may "assume in the void of what is not said" that Babies go to heaven - and there is nothing to controvert that. You seek to argue your own case from the void of what is not said about Babies.

    Clearly they "need a savior" for all are sinners and in need of a Savior - but since Christ IS the "Savior of the World" according to 1John 4, The Arminian case would allow for the salvation of those that are on NEITHER road.

    But that does not address the real problem - that of the humans that are not babies - the real problem for Calvinists - an innescapable group qualifying for the "FEW" vs "MAN" contrast of scripture. Truly a depressing system for Calvinism.

    "Oh My Lord! Couldn't you have DONE something for my precious child???" The Calvinist in heaven exclaims as they see their precious loved one roasting in the fires of hell..

    (And by child - I mean your child of whatever age beyond a baby if you prefer)


    "SURE I could--- IF I had Cared to!"
    - comes the answer in true Calvinist form. And THAT applies to the "MANY" of Matt 7 without a doubt in Calvinism. No way to evade the point.

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ September 21, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  17. Son of Coffee Man

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    In light of this statement, and the main conversation topic: SALVATION OF INFANTS (note I did not say castigating remarks from or against calvinists) let me raise some scripture for examination.

    regarding the child of bathsheeba to david:
    "But when David saw that his servants
    whispered, David perceived that the
    child was dead: therefore David said
    unto his servants, Is the child dead?
    And they said, He is dead. Then David
    arose from the earth, and washed, and
    annointed himself, and changed his apparel,
    and came into the house of the LORD, and
    worshipped: then he came to his own house;
    and when he required, they set bread before
    him, and he did eat. Then said his servants
    unto him, What thing is this that thou has
    done? thou dids fast and weep for the child,
    while it was alive; but when the child was
    dead, thou didst rist and eat bread. And he
    said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted
    and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God
    will be gracious to me, that the child may
    live? But now he is dead, wherfore should I
    fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go
    to him, but he shall not return to me."
    2 Samuel 12:19-23

    By the way I am a Biblicist; not a calivinist, and not an armenian. I say that both systems are completely wrong with how far they try to stretch their statements. But that IS NOT IMPORTANT, I'm just giving my standpoint for reference so we can talk about the main issue here: SALVATION OF INFANTS.

    SoCM
     
  18. ScottEmerson

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    Take 2 billion people all together. That's a really large number. However, when compared to 5 billion, it is a few. Christ compares "few" and "many" for a reason.
     
  19. ForumChaplain

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    In light of this statement, and the main conversation topic: SALVATION OF INFANTS (note I did not say castigating remarks from or against calvinists) let me raise some scripture for examination.

    regarding the child of bathsheeba to david:
    "But when David saw that his servants
    whispered, David perceived that the
    child was dead: therefore David said
    unto his servants, Is the child dead?
    And they said, He is dead. Then David
    arose from the earth, and washed, and
    annointed himself, and changed his apparel,
    and came into the house of the LORD, and
    worshipped: then he came to his own house;
    and when he required, they set bread before
    him, and he did eat. Then said his servants
    unto him, What thing is this that thou has
    done? thou dids fast and weep for the child,
    while it was alive; but when the child was
    dead, thou didst rist and eat bread. And he
    said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted
    and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God
    will be gracious to me, that the child may
    live? But now he is dead, wherfore should I
    fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go
    to him, but he shall not return to me."
    2 Samuel 12:19-23

    By the way I am a Biblicist; not a calivinist, and not an armenian. I say that both systems are completely wrong with how far they try to stretch their statements. But that IS NOT IMPORTANT, I'm just giving my standpoint for reference so we can talk about the main issue here: SALVATION OF INFANTS.

    SoCM
    </font>[/QUOTE]CoffeeMan:
    Are we to scripturally gleen from the appearent salvation of David's son that all babies are saved. What was the childs age? What is the cutoff age. 1 year, 2 years, 5, 10, 12. Is the age of accountability based on years or knowledge. We cannot communicate with babies, God says that he knew them before they were placed in the womb. Is God hindered? We are spiritual creatures, is there a spiritual age that we must reach before God holds us accountable? Or is it all physical?

    Btw. I am neither calvinist nor Arminian as i have problems with both camps. Me, ima christian...

    So many questions, so few answers... That is why I said, "I don't know".

    [ September 21, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
  20. Ray Berrian

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    Ken Hamilton,

    I am sure you can read Matthew 7:13-14. Take your arguments up with the Lord. Maybe some one near you can explain the meaning behind, 'many' and 'few.'

    Death of babies will not carry your day. What percentage of babies die in comparison to older adults. Your Life Insurance Company might be able to help you understand, if we can't reach you.
     

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