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Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by kallmekrazykatie, May 2, 2005.
What are your opinions on this subject?
Yes most definately!
Yes, while we are saved by our will they are saved by Gods will
God is Love. If it was within your power to save the innocent, would you? God is Sovereign and very Gracious.
God saves more than we know. Only in Heaven will His full Glory be seen.
Praise His Blessed Name.
I say yes God love the little children.
So who has the book chapter and verse to back up what they believe?
I do not believe that God would send a child/baby to hell if it died.
They never had the chance to reach the age of accountability so they we not able to make the choice. God is a merciful God and he would not send them to hell.
OK, do you have book, chapter and verse? Remember that if you are going to believe something, believe it based on truth and not on personal feelings or emotion. That will get you into trouble every time.
One preacher's answer:
Also, what was David's response to his baby dying? What did he say? (2 Samuel 12:23)
Ezek 18:2 "What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?
Ezek 18:3 As I live, declares the Lord GOD, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel.
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Jer 31:29 In those days they shall no longer say: "'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.'
Jer 31:30 But everyone shall die for his own sin. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
The question at hand is whether or not the baby actually committed any personal sin.
(1)If you believe he or she did not, then this child will not be judged for sins he did not commit--he or she goes to heaven.
(2) If you believe the child did commit sin, then the child must be condemned without any special grace from God.
Personally, I opt for option 1.
So then one may assume that the Sanhedrin will be in heaven, since they had no awareness that what they were doing was violation of God's law?
Also by this answer one would have to believe that sin is not passed down from man to child but rather an infection that one gets as they grow older. My Bible tells me that by one man's sin entered into the world and death by sin, so death has passed to all men because all have sinned. If this means that all equals every living soul, then babies are sinners and are charged with the penalty of sin.
That is what I have been looking for from the form. If David, under the Law, can rest in the knowledge that he will see his son once again, then we also have that assurance.
But they (babies) are not charged with the rejection of Jesus Christ.
Does not matter, if they die as sinners without Christ they are still subject to the penalty except by God's sovereignty.
It also means that Christ, who was fully human (and God also), also sinned, so the point would be moot.
That's why I reject that logic.
Wait a minute, it is the seed of man that passes down the sin to the offspring. It was Adam and not Eve that God charged with the original sin, thus Adam's seed passed down the curse. So if Christ were born of a man (human father) then He would also be a sinner and in need of salvation Himself. However, He was born of a virgin with the seed provided by the Holy Spirit, thus He was born perfect in everyway, yet without sin. Therefore, Christ could not have been born a sinner and all other children are born as sinners and owe a sin debt. Christ was 100% man (the part of the woman) and 100% God (the part of the Holy Spirit), so Christ is the only 200% person to ever live.
Let's ask this question:
Did Jesus die for all?
While that is the Augustinian view of original sin, I disagree with it for one reason--find one verse that says that sin passes through the man. Just one. It won't be found.
Additionally, did Eve not inherit the curse as well? Did she not die?
Why does death spreading to all humanity have to include the "sin gene"? Could it not merely mean the exclusion from the tree of life by virture of being out of its realm?
I'm sorry. I can't accept that logic. It's perfectly in line with tradition-based Catholic theology, and when I'm willing to accept sacramental infant baptism, I'll be right on board, but until then, I'll disagree with you.