Featured Do Cals Deny "by grace through faith"

Strange since Jesus on numerous occasions called it just that. If its not our faith (regardless of origin), we are not saved. Quite simple.

 

Where does faith come from? Certainly not from a heart and conscience that is dead to God and at enmity with God. No, the faith to believe in Christ is a gift granted to us by God.

 

I would say this is a good synopsis of the differences.

 

i always have seen it as how one views the effects of the fall of Adam towards us...

Either it "wounded us", ot it spiritually "killed us off!"

 

Well if we redefine things and include presuppositions (spiritual death = unable to do anything) we can assume what you do. At any rate, if you are given a gift, whose is it at that point? Like I said, if its not YOUR faith you are not saved.

 

God is not foolish and does not waste His gifts. If the gift is granted it WILL be used. You may call it "your" faith in a manner of speaking but it is from God at it's very genesis (pun intended).

 

We do not have faith inherit within us naturally, so has to come from somewhere, in order to get used!

 

Hogwash. You exhibit faith every day, every moment in life. Everyone does.

You cal's make faith out to be some mystical gift that saves. It is not. It is the OBJECT of our faith that saves.

Every human being ever created has the ability to have faith. It is not a "wasted gift"...heck, it is not even a "gift" in the way cal's are using it.

 

Question begging.

Salvation is the gift. The spiritual gift of faith (given to those already believers, those who have already been saved by grace through faith) is not saving faith.

 

Be blessed.

 

I am Calvinistic and I affirm by grace through faith.

 

faith as used to reeceive jesus and become saved though different, as it is NOT part of us, being dead in our sin natures and seperated from God!

 

You can repeat it as many times as you like, it doesn't make it true, nor the false presuppositions built on.

 

Yes, Yeshua1 rarely quotes scripture, he quotes Calvinism. They are not the same.

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Jesus knows doctrine better than Calvin or the Reformers, he did not say "my faith" hath saved thee, he said "thy faith". Jesus does not make mistakes.

And why would Jesus ever rebuke or condemn someone for lack of faith if it was a gift from God? Utterly nonsensical, yet this is what Calvinists believe.

Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Why would Jesus ask Peter why he doubted if faith is a gift from God? Peter could easily answer, "You did not give me faith Lord" and he would be absolutely correct if the Reformed view is correct.

Absurd.

 

Apples and oranges. Faith to believe for salvation is a gift. Faith practiced after salvation is flexing the "muscles" God gives us as members of His body.

But I know I'm wasting my time until you see it for yourselves. For many years I was as rabidly "anti-Calvin" as anyone. It took some deep soul-searching and study of the Scriptures as to why there are so many false professions made. Salvation is purely a work of God, we get the honor of presenting the good news to all who will hear, but He grants the increase. Without Him there is no "increase". We can ask people to "pray a prayer" "walk an aisle" or whatever but that does not guarantee a conversion. It's that simple.

 

That sounds like the exact opposite of my experience moving away from TULIP. Also, it is not apples and oranges. All men are given a meaqsure of faith, it is a human trait. The GIFT of faith contextually is spoken of being for a believer. There is no getting around this fact.

 

Ah, well. When we get Home our Father will make it all clear.

 

God grants the sinner faith/mreans to believe unto jesus, but we are still responsible to actually 'exercise" that Gift of faith!

 

Luke 13 2-3 Jesus tells the ones that unless they REPENT they likewise will perish like the bad sinnerwill do also. BELIEVE,REPENT,through FAITH,these 3 words goes hand in hand they all basically means the same thing as far as Salvation goes:you must do this to be saved

2 Timothy 2 25-26 speaks of thos who oppose themselves,Paul writes that GOD has to GIVE them REPENTENCE to the truth,that they may escape,now if they had something in them already GOD would not have to GIVE them ANYTHING,furthermore like the bible teaches to BELIEVE,toREPENT,and through FAITH:all means the same thing=SALVATION for a sinner.

those of you who still refuse to hearken to the scriptures are fighting against HOLY GOD and not the men/women who are writing on this site

May GOD bless each one of us to know the TRUTH

 

Not according to the Bible. I am a five point Calvinist, but not because of reading Calvin, but from reading scripture. And no we do not deny by grace through faith. We do deny that faith is a human work though.

Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice where Jesus, not Calvin, says faith comes from.

Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."