Do Christians Owe Unlimited Submission To Civil Government

That might sound good in a fund raising letter or from the platform with an American flag waving in the background on the 4th of July while children hum "Glory, glory alleluha" but Daniel, Jesus, and Paul would not agree. They obeyed the government of their day which were all pagan. Any time they felt they could not obey, they disobeyed and willingly took the consequences, even to the point of death. That is not unlimited submission to a government but to God.

So is the point of your post and that letter, that we should work to gain control of the government? If so I would argue that would be a giant waste of time! Instead we should be preparing ourselves to be martyrs.

 

It appears to me from scripture that Paul and Jesus both submit to the Roman government without exception. Sure, they may have questioned or criticized the governments, but they submitted to them.

OTOH, you have OT examples of people refusing to worship false gods when the law required them to do so, so there's in the very least a scriptural fine line between the two. Not having a concrete answer myself on the topic, perhaps others can comment further.

 

My answer was basically going to be the same as yours Johnv. I do believe though that if we were ever required to worship a President or world leader, I would have to decline to submit to the gov't. I have also found that I have not submitted in the areas of not praying on public property (Schools) in GA. So, it would be a mix.

AVL1984

 

I couldn't answer the poll's question because of the word "unlimited." I would say that we should submit unless an attempt is being made to force us to do something against God, such as
1. Worship another god
2. Kill the innocent
3. Speak against Christ

If asked to do these things, we should refuse. However, this does not mean we can rebel against the rulers.

Since God clearly tells us that He establishes the governments, rulers, kings, and ruling authorities, rebelling against such authority is going against God's set up. He allows evil regimes for His own purposes.

 

The only time civil disobedience is permitted is when the state requires you to do something that would violate God's biblical command. Unlimited state power is of no concern to God. God's will for you is that you submit to the government. 1 Peter 2 explicitly uses those words. Anything less and you are out of the will of God. Don't buy this humanistic philosophy.

 

poncho,

The problem is not our silence

Examples:

1. How many God-fearing evangelicals are pro-life, jeering those who dare enter an abortion clinic and at the same time pro-death penalty, cheering when the needle is stuck in the vein of convicted criminal?
2. We demand the Ten Commandments hang or stand in our court houses, yet most evangelicals couldn't name over half the Ten Commandments when asked.
3. We proclaim the life giving liberty found in Jesus Christ and yet won't allow women the "right" to serve God as pastor's, because we men have decided it isn't their "role".
4. We cry loudly about gay marriage, even wanting to change the constitution to outlaw it, yet have a divorce rate the same or higher (depending on what stats you use) then that of the secular world.

These are just a few there could be many, many more. No, the problem is not our silence, the problem is that we won't shut up!

 

Is it cowardly to turn the other check, it is cowardly to love our enemies, is it cowardly to love others more then ourselves, is it cowardly to "live at peace with others as long as it is up to you", is it cowardly to "patiently endure" the persecution of this world, is it cowardly to be a peacemaker? If so, then paint me yellow! I contend it takes more courage and strength to live as Christ lived. I'm afraid that you have confused Christianity with democracy.

 

OTOH, in the days of slavery, many Christians didn't have a problem violating commandments.

Another commandment forbids us from taking the Lord's name in vain, yet I would not be in favor of the government making it illegal for a person to do so in the privacy of his/her home.

 

Last I knew, the government did not require me to kill anybody. There is no law for me to disobey. If the government requires my wife to have an abortion, then I would certainly disobey. But as of now, the government has required nothing unbiblical from me or from you.

I am not standing by and consenting by silence. I certainly speak about it when I have opportunity, as should you. But I am not guilty of murder in any sense at all.

Again, realize that the issue of civil disobedience is applicable only when the government requires me to violate God's law. Until then, we are to submit, whether we like it or not.

 

We are not silent about the issue in America's churches, we have the "Scantity of Life" Sunday every year in January. Besides, we should only be outraged enough to spend the time, money and resources to fight to save those who are being persecuted and killed in other countries, it's best to just sit and wait for the right people to be elected and pass the laws needed to save the thousands of babies that are butchered daily in America, it's been working for the past 30 years hasn't it? There are more improtant issues to be concerned with like education, medicare, free trade, etc.

 

From Webster's Student Dictionary copyright 1999 Barnes and Noble edition
Defiance = noun - acting against (law/ authority); adjective - very proud and antagonistic

Your interpretation of "defiance" doesn't jive with the rest of Jesus' life and teaching as a suffering servant or the rest of the scripture passage for that matter. It is a message of meekness and humility that you have twisted to suit your own needs.

 

Roman citizens paved the way in this area. They refused to pay tribute in the form of a worship ritual to Caesar and usually lost their lives through crucifixion, lions, burning at the stake, etc.