Do Christians still have their old nature/flesh after salvation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Once a sinner has be made anew in Christ, do they also still possess that flesh/sin 'thing" residing in them that still wants to go against God and his ways?

    can Christians still at times "live in the flesh", as they find themselves quenching/grieiving the HolySpirit?

    or did God totally eliminate that old sin nature from us when we got saved?
     
  2. Zenas

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    If the old sin nature were completely eliminated, all Christians would live sinless lives. Do you live a sinless life? I sure don't. We also know this was something Paul battled within himself. Romans 7.
     
  3. Reformed

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    This subject was obliquely answered in this post: Lordship Salvation post #45

    Positionally speaking a Christian is no longer a sinner. Christians still sin. They still exhibit behaviors that are in keeping with their previous sin nature, but they are new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17). The Spirit of God cannot abide with sin. The idea of a dual nature is more akin to eastern religion than it is to Christianity. The reasons Christians sin is the the battle of the mind. It is the mind that has been trained by sin. This is why Paul told the Romans to "be transformed by the renewing of your mind" (Romans 12:2).
     
  4. Tom Butler

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  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Then my guess is, the supposed Calvinist Baptist Charles H. Spurgeon disagreeing with you would come as a surprise?
    Hm. How'd that happen?
     
  6. clark thompson

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    We as Christians are told to fight our flesh.
     
  7. DHK

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    I disagree. In your link you say:
    One could just as easily say:
    We are sanctified positionally, and therefore do not have to be sanctified progressively. That is the logic you have taken. It is also the basic position of advocates of LS, though they will deny it.
    Look at Calvin's commentary on 1Cor.3:1. He even disagrees with you. He defines the Carnal Christian in that passage as the one who has allowed his nature of flesh to be stronger than his spiritual nature. There are indeed two natures within each believer.

    "O wretched man, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
    The answer:
    Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
    --Only a saved man could utter those words in verse 25.
     
  8. Winman

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    Romans chapter 7 is not Paul speaking of himself as a Christian, but an unregenerate man under the law.

    In verse 9-11 he clearly tells us he spiritually died.

    Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    In verse 7 Paul tells us when he learned the law. He said he would not have known sin except for the law, he would have not known lust except the law said, Thou shalt not covet.

    When Paul learned the law he was convicted as a sinner and spiritually died.

    In verse 14 he tells us he is carnal, sold under sin.

    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    No Christian is sold under sin, we have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus and now belong to him.

    In verse 23 Paul tells us he has been brought into "captivity to the law of sin".

    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    No Christian is a captive to sin, Paul repeatedly tells us he has been made free of sin and that the Spirit has made him free from the law of sin.

    Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Christians still have this earthly body until we die and will always be pulled and tugged by the lusts thereof, but no Christian is sold under sin or a captive of sin. If you are sold under sin and a captive of sin, then you will go straight to hell when you die, as sin OWNS you.

    No, we have been purchased by the blood of Jesus. We have died to sin and been raised to new life, we are free from sin.

    Romans 7 is Paul speaking of himself under the law before he was saved. He wanted to do good, but he was held captive by sin.
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    Correct as usual Reformed,

    From the Baptist Catechism with Commentary;

    [
     
    #9 Iconoclast, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2014
  10. DHK

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    Icon,
    I thought you believed in the Baptist Catechism and Commentary that you quoted from. It disagrees with you.
    Note how it describes chapter seven as a believer who is "the epitome of weakness and inconsistency or "carnal" (lit. of the flesh).
    --This goes entirely against what you have been posting.
     
  11. Iconoclast

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    You would have to understand what is written as it is written DHK...not cherry pick it...post the whole portion I posted and it exposes your incorrect teaching..I will post it again in total so those who read will see what you did here.

     
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Funny that the Spurgeon quote gets ignored, isn't it?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Guess that ome would not see him as being "calvinistic enough!"
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Why would we decide to quote and use ANYCommentary/Catechism though to answer the OP< being baptists, shoudn't we JUST use the scriptures for ultimate answers source?
     
  15. DHK

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    I read all of it Icon. The last two paragraphs (starting with "Third" and "Fifth") go directly against what you believe and have expressed on this board. It is time for you to read it carefully, and with some understanding instead of just blindly posting it on this board. Don't post what you don't believe, and then hypocritically say "This is what I believe." You don't believe it.
     
  16. JeremyV

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    The problem with this interpretation is this:

    "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:" (Romans 7:21-22)

    Paul is describing the condition of a man when his inward self delights in the law of God. This cannot describe an unregenerate man.

    Instead we are left with the picture of a person who has received the gift of salvation but continues to sin. This is the case for all Christians. In this chapter Paul explains why this is which can be summed up in verse 17:

    "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

    While evil is present with us and in us, we are separate from it, "...it is no more I...but sin..." After salvation, our sin nature becomes to us like a cancerous tumor. It is not a part of us but it is in us. Until we have the surgery to remove it, we must deal with it, taking treatments that shrink it. From time to time it will start to spread again and try to take over our body, but we have the assurance that this will not happen.

    Amen!
     
  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    More likely they haven't been able to pick their jaw up off the floor to get it out of the way of their keyboard. The can't deal with the fact a "hero of the Calvinists" believes the old nature remains after salvation.
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    Hey DHK......here is a news flash......it is written by the Pastor who preached the carnal Christian heresy message I offered you....lol

    I know what he teaches and why very well....lol...you still have not listened have you.....better still call him in person and tell him your theories. .....just record the phone call so we can hear how you straighten it all out.
     
    #18 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2014
  19. Iconoclast

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    When Spurgeon preached the sermon this false teaching did not exist so the language he used was not specific. If you read the quote in post 11 it destroys your false teaching that you embrace with Dhk.....

    I like how your kind like to try and say Spurgeon was not a calvinist....pick out things he said in his day and try to squeeze them into modern times...


    the one new nature we have is in the old body...which still has what Paul describes as the motions of sin in it. That is why we are mortifying the deeds of the body......not an old nature which was Co crucified with Christ.
     
    #19 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2014
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  20. Iconoclast

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    Really......why then do you disappear when Kyred or Bosley ask you to post any scripture to support your statements......you disappeared on two other threads be cause you were asked to post scripture....which according to you is what baptists are supposed to do....
    .Wait...let me check with Kyred to see if you ever have posted any scripture at all.

    now I remember. ..you used the term Sola scriptura...I asked you define it...you really did not except to repeat the bible alone......I asked if it was a. Bible term....or did it come from the 5 Solas of the reformation written by men who were all confessional men......all who believed the scripture alone is the rule of faith and practice....
    that's when you went away without a response...

    who knows...maybe something came up?
    So you can post your scriptural laden response right here!!!
     
    #20 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2014

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