Do most Baptists hold to the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by wordsworth, Mar 31, 2002.

  1. wordsworth

    wordsworth
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    Greetings.

    I was curious to know some of your positions and support for or against the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved". In the Baptist church I attend, views on this subject are on both sides, with many members admitting they were unsure. The arguments I've heard from both sides seem to have cogent biblical support. I know that the current SBC body has concluded that if someone falls away, he was never really saved even after he walked that sparkling church aisle of gold during the band's rendition of "Just As I Am"; but the first Baptist Convention of the 1920s seems to indicate the antithetical view. What are some of your views on this?

    In Christ,
    Devon
     
  2. Don

    Don
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    The parable of the seeds.

    Which is even more understandable when you look at Hebrews 10:38-39: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

    Basically, we're told that there are those that give a good appearance, but don't believe to the saving of their souls. They have the same sort of belief as the devils (James 2): they aren't saved.

    Jesus' own words: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28)

    Just my two bits worth.
     
  3. Pearl

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    I am an American Baptist. I hold a "once saved always saved" doctrine. [​IMG]
     
  4. rsr

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    I think it's fair to say most U.S. Baptists hold to the doctrine, in one way or another, although they may formulate it in different words. A major exception would be the Free Will Baptists.
     
  5. tyndale1946

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    Primitive Baptist have always believed in Once Saved Always Saved!

    Your name cannot be removed or blotted out of the book of life. If that were true that would make God a liar, and changeable. And we know that God cannot change. To believe that God would elect you and then turn around and remove you because of some work, that would set aside the doctrine of grace, and that would mean that "works", is how were getting to heaven. When Jesus speaks about having no part with him, he is saying that you're still an elect child, but whatever extra you could have recieved on this earth won't be given to you. We live by grace, and we know that if grace didn't do it , that it wasn't done. Once in, always in. Never in, always out. Look at Romans 11:5-7. This should make it all clear... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 31, 2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  6. Maverick

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    Indeed, that is probably one of the few things that we can safely say that "most" Baptists agree to. ;)
     
  7. Andrey

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    If someone buys a ticket to a movie, they get to go to the movie.

    Jesus bought my ticket to heaven, and I'm going.

    Not because I deserve it, not because I am good enough, nor because I tithe enough. Only because He bought it.

    I don't know what others think or believe. I only know that this is what I believe God has revealed to me.
     
  8. aiki

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    That fellow in the Corinthian church who was found to be in an incestuous relationship with his mother-in-law seems problematic for those who hold to the saved-and-lost belief. He was given over to Satan to the destruction of his flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Cor. 5:5) Such sin would have had him dismissed from the ranks of the born-again by the saved-and-lost thinkers. Doesn't mesh with scripture, though, does it?
     
  9. Graceforever

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    We are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves it is a gift of God less any man boast….

    We hear that so much that we pass right over its meaning…. If God then saves us by grace, doesn’t he have the power to keep us by grace?… Paul said, “for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.”

    Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ………..

    This is a free gift of eternal life that God gives us…. He is God and he changeth not… God won’t save someone, and then say, whoa nelly, I made a mistake…

    No offense, but If everyone understood what the true gospel of God is, this question about, “once saved, always saved” would go away…….. Here is the gospel, Paul says, “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”

    Notice in the above verse, “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the ‘grace of God’ into ‘another gospel….

    He plainly states that the “Grace of Christ” is the true gospel… There is no other, which Paul tells us that in the seventh verse, “which is not another”…….

    So brethren, if God saves us by grace, why is it that we want to add our works (of righteousness) into it? Can we add something to the grace of God…? I don’t think so….

    If I had to depend on the very best minute in my life, as a Christian, to save me, I would perish… I’m totally dependent upon him, because I know what I am… I’m just a sinner who realizes, that I would be lost, were it not for the unmerited grace of God…..

    Therein lies my hope…. Jesus is my advocate (lawyer and mediator) and I am pardoned from all my sins, because I believe in his total works as a Savior upon the cross… I’m not deserving, but that’s beside the point, no one is deserving….

    If I got what I deserved, it would be death, because the wages of sin is death… “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”………

    Do I sin? Yes! Do I want to sin? No! I don’t want to sin… That’s what separates me from the unbelievers… I’m frustrated because I can’t live in the spirit all the time… My flesh is constantly getting in my way… Sometimes, the more I try the harder the task…. If it were not for grace, where would I be?

    Realize this, we are all sinners gone a stray and not one of us seeks God… It is God that finds us, and you’ve heard the OLE saying, finders keepers, losers weepers…. God has founded me upon a solid rock… Satan weeps when he thinks that he has lost one of his followers.. I don’t know this to be a fact, but if there is joy in heaven over one lost soul that is saved, I’m persuaded that Satan does the opposite… God keeps, satan weeps…..

    Jesus said, if you loved me you will keep my commandments… His commandment is this, “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved.” I do, therefore I am saved.. Amazing, isn’t it?

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Peace to everyone….. Gary
     
  10. Jack Lewis

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    Since I've attended mostly Southern Baptist Churches, they've all been in strong agreement with the teaching of "Once saved always saved". While they aren't technicly Baptists, I did attend an Evangelical Free Church for awhile, which held identical beliefs to Southern Baptists, including that of eternal security.

    As an aside, if one were to be "saved", then "lose" that "salvation", then die and go to hell -- what exactly were they ever saved from? Logicly speaking, salvation would be defined by the result, not the current state, so in order to be saved at all it would need to be a sure thing, not something that could be taken away. Otherwise "salvation" would simply be a gamble one undertakes, defying the promise given to us in 1 John 5:13.

    Jack Lewis
    radioJesus.com

    [ March 31, 2002, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Jack Lewis ]
     
  11. donnA

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    You would have to out sin God's grace in order to loose salvation. You can't do it. Where sin is grace is even bigger.
    The bible says to those who are in Christ Jesus there is no more condemnation.
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

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    I am ardently non-Calvinist and therefore do not believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine.
     
  13. Brutus

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    What exactly does being a "non-Calvinist" have to do with it? I know many "non-Calvinists" who claim the once saved always saved belief!
     
  14. Molly

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    I believe the scriptures to teach that God saves us and He does the work of justification,substitution,redemption,sanctification. There is no end to what God does in our lives....but I do believe that there is a false security sometimes,that those who feel they "walked" the aisle,or prayed a certain pray are saved,not necessarily...1st John speaks to that. So,some think they are saved who really don't have faith and do not live a life full of God's grace and holiness. But,if you are truly saved,you will know it and that can never be taken a way or you can not do anything to override God's grace. If you sin,you will repent,you will not live in sin. That would be a mark of a true believer.
     
  15. rsr

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    Ah, Michael, I was waiting for you to show up.

    Even non-Calvinists, (or non-TULIP) can believe in security. Many Baptists hold to security even though they do not understand predestination the way their TULIP-believing brothers do.
     
  16. Sam

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    I to believe in once saved always saved but like Molly said just becase a person confesses doesn't mean they where sincure. You know when you are a child of God just as you know you are a child of your earthly father. God doesn't give you promises and then take them back. We may turn from him but he will never leave us.

    (1 John 5:13) says, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    There is no place in the bible where a person was saved twice. Jesus would have had to go to the cross again! So if anyone is being taught that they have to be saved everytime they sin there being mislead. ~Sheila~
     
  17. Speedpass

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    You can't lose anything you never earned in the first place; that's my take on "once saved, always saved."
     
  18. donnA

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    I'm not a calvinist either, but I still believe in the grace of God. And I believe the bible when it say where sin is grace does much more abound. Which menas you can't out sin God's grace, once your saved, your sins are never too big for God's grace, Jesus death takes care of all my sins, none are too much for Him.
     
  19. tnelson

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    John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. (26)But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27)My SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I KNOW THEM, and THEY FOLLOW ME: (28)And I GIVE unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, neither shall any MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. (29)MY Father, Which GAVE THEM ME, is greater than ALL; and NO MAN is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (30)I and my
    Father are one.

    A person can fall-way with his salvation because they did not have salvation to start with. But those which the Father gave the Son can not fall-way from grace.
     
  20. wordsworth

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    Greetings.

    This has definitely evolved into a great discussion on this very important topic for Baptists. From reviewing the replies the consensus seems to be in favor of the once saved always saved position. My concern, however, is what does this hedge and safe position do to the mindset of the new believer?

    Molly, I think you expressed the doctrine most accurately and as it should be expressed when we as Baptists “invite” unbelievers to Christ. Also, I think terms must be defined with urgent clarity when dealing with the new believer.

    The new believer walks the right aisle, says the right prayer, signs off on the dotted line for follow-up reading material, gets the right immersion, but in the end are they really saved? Many of us would overwhelmingly say, “Yes.” But are they really saved as result of following the usual outward formula we have instituted in our churches? I loved LPs post on our wide used “The Four Spiritual Laws” and “Steps to Salvation.” Do we want to promulgate to new believers, “if you do this or that you’re saved forever, no matter what”? This, I think, is dangerous ground. Only God saves and only He re-births. And when He re-births a person they will come face to face with their desperate condition and RUN TO GOD willing to forsake all for Him! They won’t heed any procedure or process. They won’t follow some rote artificial prayer. They won't weigh their options, as an arrogant man would before God, and CHOOSE Him only to, thereafter, convince themselves of a solid assurance. No, they will burst out with repentant prayer! They won't succumb to easy believism which is snatched away, but will be overcome by genuine conversion.

    Additionally, our concern should not be with numbers, but with preaching the truth of Christ. Paul said he came preaching the truth, not with flattery or persuasiveness—Paul was effective. Many are prompted to the alter by their weighing the options of accepting Christ or not accepting Christ. Many look to the secular benefits to them. Many are nudged forward by the persuasiveness of the preacher. Few are moved and chosen by God, as the Scriptures proclaim (Matt. 22:14). If they were moved merely by the prompting, prodding, or persuasiveness of the preacher, do we really want them to come down the aisle? I hold that we should not because God does the entire process, not man.

    Molly, I agree with you. I fear the potential destructiveness of the false security many of us preach to others. Can I say anything other than I know I am saved and am being saved? Can I speak for Bob, Tom, or Bill? Does the Bible teach us to couch ourselves and our brethren into this cozy position? Is such spiritual comfort and coziness something that should be heralded from our pulpits? More importantly, is it the will of God?

    Truthfully, what should be our position when counseling a new believer who has “slipped” back into sin. Do we tell him to walk the aisle again because he really wasn’t saved the first time he “chose” Christ? Do we tell him there is no hope for him? Do we tell him to really be serious this time? Do we tell him that his sin will surely not affect their salvation because he did the right outward things when he “received” Christ into his heart. Or do our words simply fall impotent because we have assured this person that he would be saved always no matter what he does? How do we counsel such a one? We can only turn to him and admit we erred and trifled terribly with his soul. We do a great disservice to the body of Christ when we assume everyone who follows a man-made pattern is saved, and that we have been given the right to cloak others with an impenetrable coat of assurance. How many on that day will say, “Hey, my preacher told me I was saved no matter what”? The fact is, only God knows who is really saved since He draws and dictates the entire process of salvation via His sovereign will. I feel sometimes we try to usurp God in this and lead many to hell because we assume a truth upon people that may not be truth at all.

    The message would be most pure and impeccable if we tout, in fear, the following: stay in Christ, endure to the end, watch yourself lest you fall, be on your guard, always fix your gaze on Christ, do not fall asleep—this is the biblical message that should be preferred upon both new and old believers instead of an instantaneous and impervious assurance.

    I wonder,… is it a great day in church when thirty people walk the aisle to “receive” Christ, or is it a better day in church when one person truly runs headlong up the aisle while realizes his desperate NEED for Christ, rather than their CHOICE for Christ? I say the latter.

    Katie says, “You would have to out-sin God's grace in order to loose salvation. You can't do it. Where sin is grace is even bigger.” I have heard this and said it myself a couple of times, but shouldn’t we tread this route very lightly? For many, this could provide a very convenient license to sin. Should we say to new believers, “Oh you sin that sin, it’s okay because you are saved and God’s grace will always pardon your sin… don’t sweat it, you’ll go to heaven.” First John 3:6 says no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. God’s view of sin has not changed and I think, too often, we preach a watered down version of sin today. If we know the Lord died for our sins, we don’t revel in that fact and sin more, rather we recognize that we have died to sin; it has NO power over us. If we have died to sin, why do we say so often, “everyone sins and we will sin?” Why? Who says that we have to continue to sin? Can we be in Christ and sin at the same time? No, I believe we are either in one or the other. Never take sin lightly!

    The fact is we are admonished to be confident in our own salvation. We can’t know about others because they follow a pattern we’ve adopted, only He knows…The Spirit listeth where it will. Neither can we know if someone really believes on Christ, but we assume all is well at the slightest outward flicker of someone doing what we believe exhibits genuine belief. Using reason, if I don’t know unequivocally about someone’s relationship to Christ, how can I tell him that he’s “once saved always saved”? Am I omniscient? Rather, I should preach the word and let the Spirit of God make the necessary convictions. As a man, I should stay in my place and role as a mere man. What's your role?

    I’ll stop here and listen a bit.
     

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