Do Pretierists/Ammillinialists Believe In the Physical Return Of Christ To the Earth?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Do both believe in the Second Coming, and if yes, will he be coming back to earth, just as he said he will one day?
     
  2. J.D.

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    "Full" Preterist - no/no. "Partial" Preterists - Yes/yes. Amil's - Yes/yes.
     
  3. Osage Bluestem

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    Full preterism is heretical.
     
  4. asterisktom

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    Says who? Your favorite preacher? The Bible?
     
  5. drfuss

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    Please define "Full" Preterists and "Partial" Preterists.
     
  6. Osage Bluestem

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    Anything utterly unbiblical is heretical. Full Preterists deny Christ is returning. That is outside of the bounds of Christian orthodoxy.
     
  7. asterisktom

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    Shooting from the hip, not quoting from the Bible. Nothing surprising here.
     
  8. mandym

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    Agreed:thumbs:
     
  9. JesusFan

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    Which part of his statement was "shooting from the hip?"
    IF Full Pretierist DO deny that Jesus will have a second coming in the future, that IS heresay....

    there is LOT of things that MUST happen at return of Christ...
    So without a literalal Second Coming of Jesus, God will NOT keep his promises, so there HAS to be Jesus returning to earth in the future...
     
  10. Martin Marprelate

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    You are correct. This Full or Hyper Preterism is what Asterisk Tom has been propounding on the other thread.

    Acts 1:11. 'This same Jesus, who was taken up into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.'

    The Lord Jesus is coming again. The same Jesus, not another, and He will come in the same way as He went. He was seen ascending into heaven; He will be seen returning from heaven. He went with a visible body; He wil return with a visible body. He was obscured by clouds (v9); Clouds will part to reveal Him (Rev 1:7 etc.). There is no 'invisible coming' in AD70.

    Steve
     
  11. asterisktom

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    Were the comings of the Father in the Old Testament visible too?
    Acts 1:11 is a great verse on this topic, but don't forget the context:

    9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

    10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,

    11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.


    He did return in like manner - hidden in a cloud. He came in a cloud. The paintings and modern charts have Him on a cloud. Scripture here says out of their sight, thus, hidden in the cloud. I'll go with Scripture.
     
    #11 asterisktom, Apr 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2011
  12. mandym

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    Nothing you said has anything to do with scripture. Talk about theological gymnastics.
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

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    We're not talking about the Father or the Old Testament. Stick to the point, please.
    Oh dear! At least read the Scriptures you're quoting!
    will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.
    Men saw Him go into heaven; a real person with a real visible body. Men will see Him return 'in like manner.'
    I wish you would.

    Steve
     
  14. revmwc

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    What scripture says that?
     
  15. asterisktom

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    The fact that you do not see the continuity between Testaments is part of the point. The fact that you see my referencing the OT as pointless tells me much about your hermeneutics. I suppose your Bible begins with John 1.

    What do you suppose that "cloud received Him out of their sight" means? You make no mention of that and then fault me for not dealing with the verse. It doesn't fit your scenario.

    These facts are right before us in this passage:
    1. They look up at Jesus as He ascends.
    2. A cloud hides Him from their view (verse 9) Are we agreed on this so far?
    3. The last thing they see is the cloud, not Jesus.
    4. The angel interrupts their gazing skyward and tells them that He will turn in like manner.

    Oh well, not worth going over and over again.
     
  16. asterisktom

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    Says what? Please specify.
     
  17. revmwc

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    Where in the O.T. does it say the Father came?
     
  18. revmwc

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    Says that Christ has already come back on a cloud.
     
  19. asterisktom

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    Several times. For one, read Micah 1:2-5 of His coming to bring judgment for the transgressions of Israel and Samaria.

    Hear, all you peoples!
    Listen, O earth, and all that is in it!
    Let the Lord GOD be a witness against you,
    The Lord from His holy temple.

    For behold, the LORD is coming out of His place;
    He will come down
    And tread on the high places of the earth.


    The mountains will melt under Him,
    And the valleys will split
    Like wax before the fire,
    Like waters poured down a steep place.


    All this is for the transgression of Jacob
    And for the sins of the house of Israel.
    What is the transgression of Jacob?
    Is it not Samaria?
    And what are the high places of Judah?
    Are they not Jerusalem?


    Question: When did these things ever happen? Mountains melting, valleys splitting. For that matter when did God "walk on the high places of the Earth"?

    Isaiah 64:1-3 also speaks of God's having come down in the past.

    Oh, that You would rend the heavens!
    That You would come down!
    That the mountains might shake at Your presence—

    As fire burns brushwood,
    As fire causes water to boil—
    To make Your name known to Your adversaries,
    That the nations may tremble at Your presence!

    When You did awesome things for which we did not look,
    You came down [past tense],
    The mountains shook at Your presence.


    Because these comings of the Father were non-physical (though there were always physical - as well as spiritual - consequences!) the coming of the Son was non-physical as well.
     
  20. asterisktom

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    You are not even reading what I wrote. I would never say "Christ has already come back on a cloud."
     

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