Do Pretierists/Ammillinialists Believe In the Physical Return Of Christ To the Earth?

Hey, I like your tag line. Apart from the fact that I can read those big red words without my glasses even.

I also like it because it is very much backed up by Scripture. So we could either write your tag line (OK, one letter off!):

LITERALISM IS A FATAL DISEASE

Or we can go right to Scripture, 2 Cor. 3:6, and write:

The Letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


Well, I could really get into this shouting business. The bigger your letters are the more your point is made.

 

I'm an amillennialist and I believe in the physical return of Christ to the earth. Full preterism, on the other hand, denies that cardinal doctrine of the Christian religion. There's a reason why full preterism is, as of yet, the only thing on this board to earn an anathema from me.

 

Welsh Baptist Morgan Edwards, who became a prominent pastor in America's Philadelphia Baptist Association, wrote in the 1740s:

"my text, “The saints shall reign with Christ [on earth] a thousand years." Other texts say, that all "kingdoms and dominions under the whole heaven shall be given to the saints." (Dan. Vii-- 18. 27): That the saints "shall judge men and angels." (1 Cor. vi, 2. 3). Miserable work do the Antimillenarians make of these texts. And as miserable of the following; "When the son of man shall sit on his throne, ye [my twelve disciples] shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes Israel." (Matt. xix. 28). "I appoint unto you a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table, in my kingdom." (Luke xxii. 29, 30.) "Hence forth I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my father's kingdom." (Mat. xxvi. 29.) "To sit on my right hand and on my left [in my kingdom] is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them " for whom it is prepared of my father." (Matt. xx.23). The meek shall inherit the earth." (Matt. v, 5. " Thy kingdom come" &c. (Matt. vi. 10) Literal millennarianism alone will do justice to these texts and many others"


And some wise words from Charles Spurgeon, preaching from Ezekiel:

"I wish never to learn the art of tearing God’s meaning out of His own Words. If there is anything clear and plain, the literal sense and meaning of this passage—a meaning not to be spirited or spiritualized away—it must be evident that both the two and the ten tribes of Israel are to be restored to their own land and that a king is to rule over them." —"The Restoration and Conversion of the Jews"

 

If you crib eschatology notes from Spurgeon, good as he was in many other subjects, you will be doomed to have sketchy and confusing eschatology. Confusing, because he himself was confused and hesitant on the whole subject. I think it was in his "Lectures to My Students" that he wrote about his hesitance on this. I could be wrong on it being that book; I used to read quite a bit of Spurgeon in my earlier years and don't remember where I came across that.

But the fact is that many different eschatological isms claim Spurgeon as one of their own. In many cases because Spurgeon wrote and preached along several veins. In the same way, Spurgeon is claimed both by day-age creationists (which is what he was) and YEC.

So, yes, throw Spurgeon at me. Ha ha. The one who spiritualized away Genesis 1.

I meant to get to the other guy but the real world just intruded again. I will get back to this later, Lord-willing.

Additional:
Here is a quote from Spurgeon, underlining mine:
"In the 2d verse of the first chapter of Genesis, we read, ‘And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.' We know not how remote the period of the creation of this globe may be-certainly many millions of years before the time of Adam. Our planet has passed through various stages of existence, and different kinds of creatures have lived on its surface, all of which have been fashioned by God. But before that era came, wherein man should be its principal tenant and monarch, the Creator gave up the world to confusion."

No one should mistake Spurgeon for a literalist when it comes to creation. I, the heretical preterist, believe in a literal 6 days of creation. Spurgeon, the supposed literalist par excellence, believes in "various stages of existence" stretching over "millions of years", all this before Adam.

Spurgeon broke his own rule. He was guilty of "tearing away God’s meaning out of His own Words." He took the plain sense of Genesis 1 and accommodated it to the spirit of the age: evolutionism.

 

Amillennialists believe in a literal millennium. It's just not a 1,000 yr reign on earth. We should be honest about the various positions and not cherry pick quotes that give us warm fuzzies.

Anyone who knows amillennialism knows they believe in a literal millennium and a literal return of Christ, as well as a literal tribulation. It just goes to show you that people don't know their theology when they say otherwise, and that should come as no surprise in our theology-allergic church of today.

 

An anathema from you, Paul, is assuring. Out of curiosity, what passages of Scripture can you point to as your basis for anathematizing my view:
1. That Christ's coming physically is a cardinal doctrine, and
2. That you are justified in anathematizing disbelievers in this view of yours?

 

I am pre-trib and pre-mil and I do believe we will see things begin to occur that will reveal the begining of the TRIB we are seeing many signs Jesus said would happen. We are seeing greater distruction coming from psunami's caused by earthquakes and we see wars and rumors of wars. All these are signs and we shall see persecution come to the church age believer. But we can calim the promise seen in Revlation 3: 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Great promise for all who keep the word of His parience. The hour of tempation the greek word is also translated as tribulation.

 

Bro Tom,

I am an "amil", but the "literal millennium" is quite puzzling to me. Will you please expound on what you meant?

I believe that when Jesus comes in the cloud, He will seperate the sheep from the goats. The goats go down, the sheep go up. The earth is burned up, and a new heaven and new earth come in. This is where New Jerusalem comes as a "bride adorned for her husband". There is no millennium, but an eternity in heaven with God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost!! Praise His sweet name!!!


i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

From the Link Theological Studies

So we should not only, NOT, cherry pick but it should also be stopped such disinformation as the above so as to make the other seem more palatable.

 

Nothing people have said about Amil proves that they do not believe in a literal return nor a literal millennium. Just not in the sense that dispys or Hist premils do.

 

As I noted just a few posts previous by a reformed author from cite - Theological Studies:

The very term 'amillennium' means they do not believe in a 'literal' millennium.

Amillenniumism however DOES hold to a Millennial view, just not a literal one but a figurative one. Thus it holds to a long period of time not 1000 year or Millennium.

 

As a preterist, I believe Jesus will physically return to earth.

 

Then you are a partial preterist, as Full preterists (like asterisktom) do not.
But this I will say -- Good for you!