Do saved people who've "Gone Home to Be With Jesus".....

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ktn4eg, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg
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    .....know what is now going on here on earth?

    I've read that some folks understand Hebrews 12:1 ["Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,"] to mean that those of God's people who have died are aware of what is going on here on earth at this present time.

    Is this, in fact, true?

    Your comments/ideas on this question would be much appreciated, especially if you can supply some specific Bible verses that support your position.

    Thanks.
     
  2. questdriven

    questdriven
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    My dad used to say he thinks people in heaven wouldn't care because they'd be busy worshipping God.
    My dad is in heaven now and I'd like to think that he watches us sometimes. Seems like the Bible doesn't say much on that, possibly not anything.
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    We had this discussion back on '09.

    Here's what I said then and I still stand by it.

    Nope. They are not in heaven "watching" us.

    Those who believe as you say are thinking of Hebrews 12:1a without taking into consideration Hebrews 12:1b or Hebrews 11.

    Hebrews 12:1a says this: "Therefore, we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses...."

    Anytime that Paul says "therefore" (and he says it alot), you have to go back and read the prior verses. Who makes up the "great cloud of witnesses"? The men and women in the roll call of the faithful in chapter 11 - NOT our loved ones.

    What does Paul mean by "witnesses"? He doesn't mean that all of those people are looking over the clouds peeking at us and our miserable lives. He means that they are a testimony or a witness TO us as to how to live our lives for God. No one who has died is looking down from heaven and watching us here on earth.

    Now to complete just exactly what Paul meant, you have to finish the verse.

    Hebrew 12:1a and b "Therefore, we also, who are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us."

    Paul says that because we can "see" the testimony of those who have run the race before us, we should emulate them and run our own race. He is not saying that they can see us.

    If they could see us and our loved ones could see us, then they would see nothing but sin, death, and misery.
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Of course they know what is going on, but all their earthly ties and affections are dissolved. They are consumed with one thing, and that is Christ and His kingdom. They aren't looking down on their earthly families "smiling," or "proud," or other such nonsense.
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
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    Heaven is beyond time and space. When a believer passes from this world, he/she has transcended the line of demarcation between heaven and Earth. I don't believe there is any way for a believer in heaven to even see the Earth, much less view it and see what is transpiring here.

    Interestingly, the word "cloud" -- the Greek nephos -- is said by Thayer's to be used as a description a great shapeless collection of vapour obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapour with some form or shape. I think that supports the idea that, while that cloud of witnesses is "visible" to us through their testimony recorded in Scripture, they have no ability to view our world and its sad condition.
     
    #5 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  6. Jacob_Elliott

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    ^^^^^^This!:thumbs: it also makes much more sense if you read seven or eight versus before to get some context
    Edit: actually he covered the context as well
     
    #6 Jacob_Elliott, Jan 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2014
  7. Judith

    Judith
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    There is no biblical reason to believe the saved see what we are doing.
     
  8. Zenas

    Zenas
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    It all depends on whether the word "witnesses" refers to persons who are conveying information or receiving information. I don't know about Greek but in the English language it can do either.

    For conveying information, the word often becomes a verb as in "She is witnessing to me.

    For receiving information, it is always a noun as in "She was a witness to the accident."

    In light of Hebrews 12:18-22, which is the scriptural basis for the doctrine of the communion of saints, I believe those who have gone before us do have the ability to see and hear us. Albert Mohler and Billy Graham have both publicly affirmed their belief in the ability of the saints of Hebrews 11 to see us and cheer us on.
     
  9. Phillip3

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    test

    This is just a test to see if my browser is working correctly.
     

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