Do Sinners go to hell due to rejection of Christ/Or Their Sin Natures?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 5, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    is it due to the fact they willfully have rejected/ not believed in the Son of God, or due to the fact are born sinners by nature?
     
  2. revmwc

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    Many scriptures show this to be true in my estimation,

    1 Peter 3:
    17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    Christ suffered for sins the just for the unjust, all of us were unjust, we are justified by faith.

    1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    He (Christ) is the propitiation for our sins but also for the sins of the whole world (all mankind). Fairly clear there.

    2 Thessalonians 2:
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Verse 12 those who don't believe the truth are damned.

    Romans 5:

    5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.


    Verse 6 christ died for the ungodly, who are the ungodly all mankind of course.

    John 3:
    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


    Verse 18 He that believeth not is condemned already.

    Revelation 21:26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

    27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    Who enters those whose names are written in the Lambs book of Life and how does ones name get written in His book, I believe it is by faith. We know it isn't works.
    Romans 10: 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Calling on Christ brings salvation.
     
  3. Skandelon

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    Well, some of us "Arminian-types" believe what the bible says when it speaks of Christ appeasing the wrath of God for sin. So, while we acknowledge the imputation of Adam's sin, we also acknowledge the sacrifice of atonement offered for the whole world.

    Jesus said, "I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (Jn 12)

    What condemn's mankind on the last day? Is it the imputed sin of Adam? NOPE! What does He say? The "very word which I spoke will condemn him." What is that "word?" The gospel truth!

    "For I did not come to judge the world" based upon the "righteousness that comes through the law"....or Adam's imputed sin. But instead there is a "new righteousness being revealed" (Rm 3) which is not from LAW but through faith...this is what Christ has revealed as the "WORD." It is by that "NEW RIGHTEOUSNESS" that "WORD OF CHRIST" by which we are judged. If someone is condemned, he is condemned for his UNBELIEF (Rm 11:23; Heb 3 etc)

    Heb 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief!

    John 3:18 says "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

    Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

    1 Cor. 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    2 Thess 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.


    And

    Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen
     
  4. ReformedBaptist

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    There are many Scriptures that could be looked at to answer this question. These verses seem very clear to me and address the question directly:

    It is through faith alone that we are justified before an all holy God. It is because our wicked deeds that we are justly condemned.
     
  5. Skandelon

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    Everyone's deeds are evil, saved or not. The difference is how one responds to God's appeal to be reconciled to him. Yes, those who are condemned are condemned justly, but it's because of unbelief they will not enter the kingdom, not because of their deeds. See the verse listed above.

    Even the verse you listed states, "he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
     
  6. Osage Bluestem

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    Everyone goes to hell because they have sinned.
     
  7. quantumfaith

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    And rejected Christ. :)
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Same difference no?:smilewinkgrin:
     
  9. Osage Bluestem

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    Indeed. Rejecting Christ is sin.
     
  10. Tom Butler

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    What if they've never heard of the Lord Jesus?
     
  11. Allan

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    Doesn't matter, to reject even the most basic of spiritual truths revealed by God Himself toward all men, is to reject the fullness of the Truth (Christ) of which those basic truths are apart. These according to scripture are - sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come.

    Example: to reject either the concept or reality of sin is to also reject righteousness, and by extension God, since it is God's righteousness that establishes just what sin is. And therefore they reject the very idea and/or reality of their need for Christ, who IS God.

    As such, even if they never heard of Jesus or the gospel, when they reject even those basic spiritual truths (which God reveals to them) they reject the very character and nature of God - ie. Jesus Christ, and therefore without excuse - having known the truth, traded it for a lie.
     
    #11 Allan, May 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2011
  12. quantumfaith

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    That is an excellent question, and I freely admit above my pay grade. IMHO, that is in the job description of the Deity. I do have my own thoughts, loosely organized as they are, on the subject.
     
  13. quantumfaith

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  14. DiamondLady

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    The very earth itself gives testimony to God. There are many missionary stories of arriving in the deepest jungle where they were greeted with the words, "we were waiting for someone to come and tell us about God."

    Scripture says the unpardonable sin is rejection of Christ. I believe that is the sin which condemns one to hell.
     
  15. revmwc

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    I know you are asking about what some term the heathen. I'll have tp get to a few things I have that will help me answer you. Away from them for a few more days so I'll try to answer this in a few days.
     
  16. Skandelon

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    Yes, rejecting Christ (his truth) is a sin, but its the only sin that condemns a man to perish as the verses I listed explain.

    Its like if you were in a burning building and the firemen put a latter to the window, which was the ONLY way of escape. If you refused to take the latter and burned up in the fire, then the reason you burned wasn't because the building was on fire, but because of your refusal to take the way out when it was offered. If your friends all took the latter and were asked later, "Why did your friend burn in the fire?" How would they answer?

    Would they say, "Because the building was on fire." or would they say, "He refused to come with us on the latter???" I think the answer is obvious.

    Now, had the way out not been there, then yes, you would have burned because the building was on fire and their was no escape (which is the view of true Calvinism for most of humanity). This is the reason this system is rejected by most believers. The idea of God appearing to offer a means of escape to all, while not "really" providing those means to most is simply unacceptable and unbiblical.
     
  17. JesusFan

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    Actually, IF you come from the start with the concept that ALL of us actually are deserving a hell due to us being both sinners, and actual sinning to prove that fact, that God would actual deem to save anyone is GRACE...

    Think about same number of people in both the cal/Arm camps around here...

    Think that there is a proven biblical concept of God preserving unto himself a "remnant" in both the OT/NT times...

    A lot of this depends on the referenece point...

    Point we ALL can agree with is that we are born sinners, that we all get to hell by willfully rejected Jesus Christ as Saviour/Messiah, that NO ONE there has an excuse to present before God!
     
    #17 JesusFan, May 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2011
  18. Skandelon

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    This is a quote directly from my blog, so as to give you clarity on something I have always believed and affirmed:

    Actually, I do believe that if Calvinism is true then the lost have a perfect excuse. What better excuse is there than "I didn't know," or "I didn't understand," or "I wasn't given what I needed."
     
  19. jbh28

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    Primary cause: they sinned
    Secondary cause: rejection of Christ.


    Example: Suppose I have to pay a speeding ticket. It's $150. Why do I have to pay the ticket? It's because I broke the law. Now, you come up and offer to pay the debt for me. I reject your offer. If I had accepted your offer, I would have had to pay the ticket and it would have been because I broke the law. Secondary causes don't remove the primary cause. So why do people go to hell? Because they are sinners who have rejected Christ with being a sinner as the primary reason.
     
  20. JesusFan

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    the point here though is that NONE are without excuse, will be judged and condemned due to willful rejection of Christ..

    IF you are not elected/chosen by the Lord, you still commit sins deserving punishment, and you will not have an excuse, since you are doing what is natural to you, what you would do , as God just leaves you to do what you want to do anyways as you do get to excercise your "free will" and stay lost, light has come into the World, yet men refused to receive, as chose to stay hidden in their darkness
     

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