Do Sinners go to hell due to rejection of Christ/Or Their Sin Natures?

The answer to the question of this OP can clearly be seen by simply comparing those in heaven with those in hell. Both are sinful and born with sin natures. You find murders, adulterers and the like in both places.

So, what is the difference? Those in heaven believed in Christ, and those in hell didn't. Thus, the difference is faith, not sin. Therefore, those in hell are there because of unbelief, period.

 

At this point you are correct

Here is where you make your error. They are there because of both unbelief and sin.

 

But Christ paid for all. So if you are going to go with that, then we have an issue. What it seems is that you are saying is that Jesus died for all our sins except for unbelief. You are right that the difference is that those in heaven believed and those in hell didn't believe. But sin was the primary cause for any of this. We believed, so our sins are credited to our account. Those that don't believe don't have the payment applied on their account.

 

I think this one phrase from Jesus sums it up:

"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (Jn 12)

QUESTION: Is it there sin that condemns them? Jesus said, " I did not come to judge the world, but to save it." And Paul said, "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them."

ANSWER: NO. He is not judging them, or counting their sins against them.

QUESTION: So, why are some condemned? Jesus said, "that very word which I spoke will condemn him." And Paul said, "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

ANSWER: REJECTION OF CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH

 

This is silly....The unpardonable sin was specific to Jesus day.
All sins of some men were paid at the cross.
There is no sin not covered by the cross.....for those who Jesus died for.

This also is very bad;

At the white throne there will be no problem counting sins against the goats.These verses are being abused here

 

But which of those is the determinative factor since those in heaven and hell all have sin? The difference is the faith, not the sin.

If you compared two boxes full of object to determine how they were divided up and all the toys in both boxes were red, but only those in the box on the right were round, what would be the determinative factor for the division? Their color or their shape or both?

To say both would be absurd. Their color doesn't make a difference because they are all the same color. The only determinative factor is there shape.

 

Says who? What chapter and verse tells us this? Or, are you speculating in the same manner that the scholar's I would quote are speculating?

Calling differing scholars speculations on this point "silly" is patronizing and unproductive to our discussion.

 

Icon, I've provided many passages and sound reasoning for my application. A dismissive remark such as "these verses are being abused here," is unfounded and without any merit...tantamount to "nuh-huh."

 

Not this again!

 

your abusive explanations of the verses were silly....no speculation,just fact here,

And in case you missed it mark makes it clearer here

Jesus is the HE in vs 30

 

You took those passages way out of their context with your leading questions.

Jesus stated his purpose was to save the world, not judge it. That's true for that time. That's exactly what Jesus was doing.

You are still looking at the secondary causes. John 3 says we are condemned already. We don't believe, so we keep the condemnation that is coming to us. If we believe, we are not condemned. Revelation 20 teaches that the sinners at the Great White Throne will be judged on what they do(i.e. their sins)

 

Yes. I said this before. I even said in the post that you were correct up to this point.

This has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Also, the discussion isn't about the determinative factor. Both of use agree that both those in heaven and those in hell are sinners. All are sinners. The differences is that my sins have been paid for on the cross and applied to my account. Those that don't believe, will not have their sins payment applied to their accounts.

So, people go to hell because they are sinners and have rejected Christ. So they are paying for their sins because they rejected Christ's salvation. People in heaven are sinners that have received Christ. So they are not paying for their sins because Christ paid for them and applied them to their account.

 

Iconoclast....

I said...

And you said...

I'm gonna keep on till you get with the program, brother.

This "Calvinism" stuff is rendering you unable to see some something that is so scripturally clear.

 

Pro. 1:23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Then, go to Lev. chapter 26:1-13 and see what God will do for them if they will keep His commandments. Then read from verse 14 -39 and see what God will do to them if they do not keep His commandments. Then from 40 to the end of that chapter God says if they will confess their iniquities, He will remember the covenant He made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

So in summation, they go to eternal torment due to the fact they choose to not put their trust in Jesus, but theirself.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

[QUOTEThis "Calvinism" stuff is rendering you unable to see some something that is so scripturally clear][/QUOTE]
:laugh::laugh:
Aic
Once again....you are making this verse over work ...the light of nature, and the light of conscience is not enough to save men. It just lets them know there is a God who they are accountable to.
No one in scripture taught this idea you are putting forth.

AIC....you believe this idea...but no one else I know of does.On the other hand ....this "calvinism stuff" has been believed clearly by all the reformers and puritans.....so maybe it is you that needs to...as you say get with the program. I will help you if I can. Did you order the book I recommended for you? I can recommend a few more if you like. here is awpink

 

Here is another passage to chew on:

1 Sam. 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,

5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.

6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.

7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

And y'all know the rest of the story; they ended up with Saul, a Bethlehemite, as their king, and he went after David in jealousy........


i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

According to Revelation 20:12-13, every lost person is judged according to their works not their sin. All sin was judged at the cross. Therefore, all those who end up in hell will go there with their sins already paid for. It is the rejection of Christ which sends a person to hell.

 

Those judged according to their works are judged guilty....their sins are not paid for, that is why they are judged....their works are sinful.
many lived before Jesus came and perished in their sins.many lived after Jesus came and perished in their sins also

 

Does salvation come because God offers the Holy Spirit and those who accept are saved or is God calling and electing whom he will and and they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit and have the firstfruits of the spirit? Is God calling only the frist fruits now in this age and others will be called later? If most of mankind has lived under deception from Satan and I believe the word states this, will they be judged while they were deceived or will they be resurrected given the truth and then judged? Are the firstfruits just to be saved or are they the fristfruits in order to be be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years?

Look at two scriptures.

Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,
Joel 2:32 for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Notice in Acts, they seek after the Lord and those he called for his name (the firstfruits of the spirit)
In the Joel passage it is the same, deliverance is in the remnant and the Lord.
IMO mount Zion are those in Acts 15:14,17 and this is in the same passage Acts 2:17 is quoted on the day of firstfruits when the Holy Spirit was first poured out, However I believe verse 32 is after the second coming.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Is everyone brought into the court judged guilty? After all we all began guilty.

 

Iconaclast...

Thats because you are running with the wrong crowd, friend. :thumbs:

Oh. And since when did they ever become infallible? It is the scriptures that we are use as the standard to judge truth from error...not the puritans and reformers. Calvinism is riddled with errors and false teachings.

I have some AW Pink works on my bookshelf. Have had them for a long time.

I actually gave Calvinism every opportunity to convince several years ago.

When put to the test of the scriptures...it failed.

AiC