do some people have a better chance to be saved

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by massdak, Jun 13, 2004.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    take our country where the gospel is free and plentiful do americans have a better chance to be saved?

    what if you were born in iraq or iran, india, china does this make less certain that you will be saved.

    what about all those generations of ignorant tribes who have never heard the gospel.

    does anyone believe that the sins of these people have made it less likely they will be saved or their children because of their worship of other gods?

    i know some will want to post this verse>>>

    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    but i would like an opinion on what Christians think on these issues.
     
  2. HankD

    HankD
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    KJV Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    NAS Ecclesiastes 3:1 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven--

    NAS Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose. Even the wicked for the day of evil.

    KJV Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
     
  3. massdak

    massdak
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    what of this question>>>


    does anyone believe that the sins of these people have made it less likely they will be saved or their children because of their worship of other gods?
     
  4. aefting

    aefting
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    Of course that's true. It is one of the terrible effects of sin.

    Andy
     
  5. mioque

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    "take our country where the gospel is free and plentiful do americans have a better chance to be saved?"
    ''
    Having the Gospel free and plentifull is a nice advantage, however all sorts of temptations that can lead one astray are also more clearly visible within Western Civilization. I don't know if these things balance out.

    "does anyone believe that the sins of these people have made it less likely they will be saved or their children because of their worship of other gods? "
    ''
    On an individual basis? No.
     
  6. massdak

    massdak
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    so you believe our ancestors can decrease ones chances to be saved?
     
  7. HankD

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    This has bad ring to it. remember the GONG show? [​IMG]

    GONG!!!

    HankD
     
  8. aefting

    aefting
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    If you are born into a Christian home then you are much more likely to be saved than if you were born in a family, culture, and nation that rejects Christ and prohibits the proclamation of the gospel. You have a much better change of getting saved by being born in America than in Iran, for example.

    God can save anyone in any situation but people who don't hear the gospel will not get saved.

    Andy
     
  9. massdak

    massdak
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    do you believe that it is by the chance of being born in a culture that gives one a better opportunity to be saved because of the freedom of giving the gospel?

    is it an ordained cause or is it circumstance?
     
  10. Marcia

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    I think it is ordained. God determines the number of years we will live (Ps 139); I think he determines where we will be born.

    I agree with mioque's remarks that although there is a better chance in a culture like the US to hear about Christ, a lot of other things pull the other way. I think there are a lot of people calling themselves Christians who are that way due to the culture and the way they were raised but who are not saved at all.
     
  11. Artimaeus

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    At first glace it would seem that the answer is, "Yes" but, if your next response is, "Well, that isn't fair!" then you have very mych misjudged the situation. God is fair and will be fair. The "chance" of salvation will be appropriate for each person.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    If you are one of God's elect, you have a 100% chance of being saved. All that the Father gave the Son will come.

    Now, moving on from the absolute of salvation, is there an effect of sin generally on families (or nations)? Think 10 commandments:
     
  13. MTA

    MTA
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    Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    The opportunity is freely given for "all" people to come to the Lord through Jesus Christ. The sad truth is that many will not, but that has never been, nor will it ever be because of where they have been born, or any other circumstances in this life.

    We are blessed that we live in a country where we face hardly any opposition to worshipping as we choose, but remember that God speaks to us inwardly in a still, small voice. If exposure to the gospel was a sure guarantee that the chances of being saved would be greater, we would definitely have a marketable commodity. But then, that would base our salvation partially on works, wouldn't it?

    Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
     
  14. Jamal5000

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    Massdak,

    I concur with Dr. Griffin. God knows who He will save, for He knew the elect at the beginning of the world.

    Whether we live in Iran, Iraq, the rainforests of Africa, the North Pole, or the ocean bottom, God will save us at an appointed time if he intends to do it.

    Of course, we Christians should continue to strive to educate everybody in the world in all places about the Gospel because we never know who God will choose when that person's appointed time comes.

    Ice in Christ,
    J5Grand [​IMG]
     
  15. MTA

    MTA
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    Dr. Griffin and Jamal:

    I was not aware we were discussing irresistable grace and predestination, and I am not sure where "free will" fits into either tenet. But, unless God is a respector of persons, how could such doctrines be true?

    I do agree that God most certainly knows who will be saved, but that is foreknowedge. God also knew that Adam was going to sin against Him, but surely you do not believe He orchestrated his sin, do you? Likewise, although God knows who will be saved, He does not prevent any who would come to Him through repentance and faith. (John 3:16, Rev. 21:6, Rev. 22:17, Luke 19.10.)

    It is infathomable that God is predisposed to pre-select those that will enjoy eternal life and those who will be damned for all eternity, or that Jesus' sacrifice was limited in scope. When a person is saved, they become one of the elect, not before.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    NTA - You have the right to believe really bad theology. Sorry a sovereign God who is 100% in charge of the affairs of this life is "unfathomable" to you.

    God ISN'T "predisposed" to select from fallen, depraved mankind certain ones to be the recipients of undeserved grace. He DID it.

    Do I understand it? No. Would I have done it that way? I'm Bob, not God.

    If you want to learn, head over the Cal/Armin forum for discussions. If not, just stay an arminian.
     
  17. MTA

    MTA
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    Dr. Griffin:

    It was not my intention to offend you. If my response was a little strong, I apologize. Regardless, simply because I fail to embrace your theology does not make mine bad, nor does my belief that grace is irresistable make me an Arminian, nor does it mean that I am not fully aware of God's control of this world and all that is in it. Likewise, whether you completely understand God's plan is inconsequencial. The truth will be known in God's good time and when we rub shoulders in Glory, I doubt either one of us will care one way or the other.

    By the way, I did not raise the issue first, but it has been an interesting diversion.

    MTA
     
  18. MTA

    MTA
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    I should learn to proofread more carefully . . .

    Line #3 - the word irresistable should read "resistable."

    (Sorry Dr. Griffin . . .)
     
  19. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    The whole debate sounds like a cyclical arguement to me. God knows everything, but we don't. So preach to all the message of salvation, and those who respond and accept Christ are saved.

    When you go deeper then that, all you get is folks going 'round in circles fighting. Time that could be spent preaching the good news.
     
  20. mioque

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    "so you believe our ancestors can decrease ones chances to be saved?"
    ''
    The people who raise you can have a profound impact on wether you are saved. But the simple fact that some of your ancestors were say devout Buddhists instead of baptists does not.


    ps. Yes I'm not a Calvinist, mostly because the guy who invented Calvinist theology wasn't this French dude Jean Calvin, but one Augustinus bishop of Hippo Regis who is also the man who made infant baptism the mainstream practice within Christianity.
     

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