Do those In Charasmatic Movement see THESE AS heretics?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    IF you are here, and are in a church or group that practices pentacostal stuff...

    Do you see those like hagin/Copeland/Price/Hinn etc as being heretics, or as real christians teaching biblical truths?
     
  2. billwald

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    There is a difference between being a heretic and milking the suckers. It might be argued they have simply adopted/adapted right wing Capitalist doctrine as their business model.
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    So people like Copeland/Hagin who claim to be equal to God is not heretical in your opinion?

    "Man...was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority.....God has made us as much like Himself as possible....He mad us the same class of being that He is Himself......Man lived in the realm of God. He lived on terms equal with God....[T]he believer is called Christ......That's who we are; we're Christ."
     
  4. Michael Wrenn

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    I don't like using the word "heretic". Besides, people these days apply to it a meaning it did not originally have.

    However, I have no problem with applying an appropriate term to people who would say such as you have quoted: "Nuts".
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    The term "heretic" (Tit. 3:10) is a very Biblical term and it is contextually used for these kind of people. Paul tells Titus to "reject" the "heretic" or a person who is so self willed or unreasonably opinionated against the truth that they cannot be instructed.

    The term has developed in time to describe those who stubbornly hold to OPINIONS that are contrary to the faith once delivered.
     
  6. Thinkingstuff

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    I've been to Pentecostal churches and many members don't consider Hagan, Copeland, Price to be Heretics. People were on the fence about Hinn however.
     
  7. plain_n_simple

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    I do not believe they are genuine. It takes a very humble person to do the works Jesus did, and most in the spotlight are not. I think they might have healed the sick before but they got puffed up with pride and lost it.
     
  8. Michael Wrenn

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    A "heretic" was originally a holder of a minority opinion. You are buying into a definition hatched by state-churchists as an excuse to exterminate Dissenters.
     
  9. billwald

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    I have no personal knowledge of these people. I have a friend who listens to these people and then rants against them to me. Life is to short to spend time with people who irritate me.
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    You are overlooking Titus 3:10. Paul is not instructing Titus to "reject" those who hold a "minority opinion" but he is clearly defining a "heretic" as those who oppose the faith once delivered.
     
  11. Michael Wrenn

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    As I have pointed out before, from Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (most literal version), the word there is "party-man". That is more in line with the definition of heretic as a minority opinion, as such a person is a member of a faction.
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    However, you are missing the Biblical context. The minority faction is in contrast to "the faith once delivered." During the apostolic period apostate Christianity was in the minority but it rapidly increased into the majority opinion.
     
  13. billwald

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    >the faith once delivered.

    "Once" means what?

    The faith was delivered only once?

    The faith after it was delivered?
     
  14. The Biblicist

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    The faith was deliever once and it was in Matthew 28:19-20. From that point forward it is perpetuated by the Great Commission which is nothing less than REPRODUCTION AFTER YOUR OWN KIND through this cycle of disciple making "unto the end of the world."
     
  15. billwald

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    19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

    20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


    (Something was) delivered into the care of the Apostles?
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Please place this back into its Biblical context. Note the word "again" that introduces verse 19. He is still continuing his previous theme which is church authority (vv. 17-18) in regard to church discipline (vv. 15-17).

    Church discipline is something that few churches practice due to fear. Fear of losing members. Fear of losing financial support. Fear of being viewed as judgemental. Fear of confrontation of sinners (1 Cor. 5).

    This addendum to church discipline is the divine promise that when the church regardless of its size ("two or three" which is the very minimum required to make a congregation as one person cannot make a congregation) meet in "my name" (as authorized, according to my instructions, in order to carry out my will; etc.) then He promises that He will be with them and back them in what they have assembled to perform as they (the church) have been given authority (vv. 17-18) to address such church affairs.

    Now, precisely defining those three principles is not that difficult.

    For example, the first category or what the scriptures clearly insist MUST either be believed or MUST not be beleived is simple. For example "Ye MUST be born again" or "Except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish" or "if any man preach any other gospel let him be accursed" etc.

    The first aspect of the second category is very easy to discern. What are the essentials that distinguish New Testament Christianity from other world religions? Jesus Christ the Son of God, the resurrection, the Trinune Godhead, the virgin birth, the Old and New Testament Scriptures, etc.

    The second aspect of the second category may be more difficult to discern. However, if you take the clear explicit statements of Scripture as that define apostate doctrines "another Christ...another gospel....another spirit" (2 Cor. 11:4) "whoever denies" (1 Jn. 4:2-4; 2 Jn. 9-12; 1 Tim. 4:1-5; etc.).

    The third category is very simple. What is essential for truth to exist and be perpetuated. The Word of God is essential, its inspiration is essential. Its final authority for faith and practice is essential as it is "the word of truth." The Great Commission is essential to reproduce "disciples" of like faith and order. Disciples are made by preexistent disciples "ye." Christ's disciples are made by preexistent disciples of LIKE FAITH and ORDER or they are not Christ's disciples - same gospel is a must. Same baptism is a must, same faith and order is a must. The great commission reproductive cylce is promised until the end of the age and therefore is a must by prophetic necessity.The New Testament congregation and its ordinances is essential as it is the "pillar and ground of the truth."
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Oct 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2012
  17. Yeshua1

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    What label would you give o those in the word of faith Monement that teach a false Gospel and a false jesus?

    isn't it saying something with Charasmatics will NOT call those falase teachers out?
     

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