Do we have a perfect Bible?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Skandelon, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Would anyone make the argument that Peter, Paul or any of the men who wrote the scripture were without sin?

    Of course not.

    Therefore, can't we conclude that God has chosen to reveal himself through flawed men who are not perfect?

    I think that is obvious.

    Therefore, if we can believe that God has chosen flawed men to reveal himself through why is it so difficult for us to accept that the book God has chosen to reveal himself through might also have flaws.
    (especially since what we have today are not original versions.)

    Before you stone me, hear me out. I believe the bible to be from God and to be inspired. I believe it is all sufficient to accomplish its given purpose. But if you found out tomorrow through archelogical evidence that one of the chapters was copied wrong or missing etc. would it shake your faith. I can honestly say it wouldn't affect mine. Why? Because my faith is not in the Bible. Its in the one to whom the Bible testifies. I don't have to have an perfect book to be a believer. Just like I don't have to have a perfect preacher. Why? Because I know from the book that I have a perfect Savior. That's enough for me.
     
  2. RaptureReady

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    No, it would not shake my faith in Jesus nor the King James Bible. I believe the King James Bible is a perfect product from God. Those that do not believe that need to show what part is not perfect.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Which of the three books on my computer desk
    is perfect?

    KJV1611
    KJV1769
    KJV1873

    Is there such a word as PERFECTER? PERFECTIST?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. RaptureReady

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    I know of 1611 and 1769 which are the same with some obvious printing and spelling differences.
    Yes, these scriptures are perfect.
     
  5. Alcott

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    Things different can be the same, you are saying.
     
  6. Skandelon

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    Just curious as to why you would have faith in your Bible? Isn't faith in Christ enough for salvation, or must it be faith in Him and the book that tells us about him?

    What part is not perfect? Well, there are numerical descepencies and such things that I don't think really affect much of anything, but they are there. I remeber learning about a couple of dozen in my Hermenuetics class in Seminary. I could look that up later, but if someone else has those handy that would be even better. I really don't want to have to read that text book again. :D

    The point is the book we have is perfectly sufficient for what it was given to do, just as Paul was perfectly sufficient to accomplish what God had appointed for him to do, but Paul wasn't perfect and that's ok. It doesn't invalidate his testimony or his work. In the same way an imperfection in a translation of a copy of the original manuscript doesn't in anyway invalidate its testimony. Do you see my point?
     
  7. timothy 1769

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    Of course we have a perfect Bible.

    But even if we didn't, it wouldn't be our place to question it. I think it's fairly obvious that in the KJV we have the Bible that God intended English speakers to use.

    Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
    Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
    Job 40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
    Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
    Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
    Job 40:6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
    Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
    Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

    ...

    We may not understand everything about how God has preserved his word. Regardless, the proper response is a humble submission to God's preserved Bible, not a gleeful groping for the exacto-knife or a lifetime membership in the bible of the month club.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    Are you ready to go through the 37
    variations of the New Testament
    Greek source DOCUMENTED IN THE KJV1611
    and not documente4d in the KJV1769?
    The 2,156 document variants in the KJV1769 REAL
    KING JAMES BIBLE -- yes Hebrew Source
    document variants?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Skandelon

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    Job is not questioning the perfection of the English translation of the copies of original scriptures, he was questioning what God had allowed to happen to his life. It doesn't apply.

    What gives you or anyone else the authority to say that? Does it say in Hesitations 4:2: "Ye shalt have only one English translation before thine eyes, and it shalt be the one called King James Version, (PS its ok to have spelling corrections)." ?

    :D
     
  10. Johnv

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    Please cite chapter and verse to support that. I can cite several translational problems with the KJV to show it's not perfect. Any place that reads "God save the King" is one. Any place in the NT that references the word "love" is another. (Greek has several words for different kinds of love, but they are all translated as "love" in most English translations, resulting in imperfect context.
     
  11. timothy 1769

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    skan: Job is not questioning the perfection of the English translation of the copies of original scriptures, he was questioning what God had allowed to happen to his life. It doesn't apply.

    tim: Of course it does, the goodness of God's providence is not to be questioned. God has looked after his word and his providental care should be enough for everyone. Modern textual criticism impugns God's ability to preserve his word. The man that excells God in wisdom and power should feel free to rewrite the Bible, everyone else should join Job in repentance with dust and ashes.

    tim: I think it's fairly obvious that in the KJV we have the Bible that God intended English speakers to use.

    skan: What gives you or anyone else the authority to say that? Does it say in Hesitations 4:2: "Ye shalt have only one English translation before thine eyes, and it shalt be the one called King James Version, (PS its ok to have spelling corrections)." ?


    tim: The world loves wit, especially when used to deride others. But Christians should aim higher: so let's be sober, putting off such jesting and foolish talking.

    The KJV is a unique phenomenon in history - a universally accepted version in use for 300+ yrs in the world's dominant language. Such things don't just "happen", not if there's an omnipotent God involved. The KJV is clearly God's preserved Word in English.
     
  12. tinytim

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    Ed, I'm sorry they seem to be ignoring you.

    Perhaps you're right and they have no answer.
     
  13. mioque

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    "The 2,156 document variants in the KJV1769 REAL
    KING JAMES BIBLE -- yes Hebrew Source
    document variants?"
    It's interesting that people usually debate the Greek NT and the LXX overhere, while a whole bunch of very interesting and significant variants are stashed away in the Hebrew.
     
  14. mioque

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    timothy
    "I think it's fairly obvious that in the KJV we have the Bible that God intended English speakers to use."
    I don't see it, but not being a (native) English speaker there is no pressing reason for me to see it.

    "The KJV is a unique phenomenon in history - a universally accepted version in use for 300+ yrs in the world's dominant language."
    The Vulgate has similar (better) credentials, but we baptists don't use it.
    In fact 300+ years? The period that English could claim as the world's dominant language, while the KJB was the only Bible in widespread use is a century in length at best.
     
  15. GrannyGumbo

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    Yes, we have a perfect Bible & a perfect God. Some folks choose to follow a different jesus. (small j on purpose).

    "There is no better friend than Jesus Christ and His Bible!"
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    Amen Sister GrannyGumbo -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    Yes, we have one perfect Living Word of God:
    Messiah Iesus.
    We have many perfect written Word of God
    in English, the Holy Bible.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you for your kind words, Brother.
    There i go suffering again for Jesus [​IMG]
    Maybe next winter, Brother Tinytim, the Lord
    will call you to the Rio Grande river vally,
    Florida, or Hawaii to "suffer for Jesus".
     
  18. Johnv

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    First, the KJV was not "universally accepted". A great many in England did not approve of the language of the KJV, which, by even their standards, was outdated. English commoners spoke a more common English, which is not what the KJV was written in. To counter the criticism, King James made it illegal to possess any bible translation except for the King James translation. That was the straw the broke the camel's back for some puritans, who left England and sailed for the New World to found a colony where they could have the freedom to use theyr Geneva Bible, which they smuggled out of England with them.

    As for KJV English being the world's dominant language, at the time, that was not the case at all. It was domiant in British territories only. The other main languages of the world were Dutch, French, and Spanish. England, Holland, France, and Spain were all global empires at the time.
     
  19. RaptureReady

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    Faith in Jesus Christ is enough to get us to Heaven, but if it were not for the Bible, we would not know that.
    Really? Would those discrepancies be with salvaltion? If not, how do you know.
    No. My question to you is, was God's word ever perfect? If yes, why don't we have it today(according to you)? If no, then you make God a liar, because everything that God does is perfect.

    Ask yourself this question, God saved me, but did he give me the tools to defend myself against the devil and this world?
     
  20. Orvie

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    Jesus is like the MV's in that He left the High and Lofty Heaven and dwelt amongst men, spoke their language, came to them. He spoke to the hearers in their language, not ancient Hebrew, nor ancient Aramaic, His NT was in everyday Greek, Koine, not Attic Classical Greek. HHMMMMMNNNNNNNN??? Hallelujah! What a Savior!
     

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