Do we have to worship on Saturday not Sunday?

The need for Christ to come and die was that man was not capable of becomming righteous via the law. If he can get to heaven via the law then more power to him, he may want to take a cooler and prepare for extreme heat.

I do believe one part, Christ did rest on Saturday morning but I believe he preached that evening.

 

hey, first of all we need to understand that we are no longer under the old law, when christ came he took away the old law so he could establish a new law based on better promises(Gal. 3:24-25)(Heb.8:6-13) hence the old law's ten commandments are no longer affecting us as new testament Christians, but in the new testament Christ did repeat all of the ten commandments except one, that commandment was to remember the sabbath and keep it holy. and yes the sabbath is on saturday. but we know that we as new testament Christians do not have to keep this commandment hence it is not repeated in the new testament, and also we find that the early Christians met on the first day of the week(Sunday) to worship.(Acts 20:7)

In Christian Love,

Dustin

 

Jesus is our Sabbath Rest, see Hebrews 4.

 

He may have been refering to something like this --

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

 

I think he must have been talking about James 2 --

See?

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.


9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "" DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,'' also said, "" DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.[/b]


13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.



14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

It is easy to see how he would get the idea that these commandments - actually quoting from the Ten Commandments were in fact "important" for NT saints.

 

Yes and no.

First of all I bet he did not say (or teach or believe) that all Christians that worship on Sunday are "going to hell".

But I bet he DOES believe that all have broken the Law of God and ALL deserve hell because of it.

The question he is raising is - ONCE we have been born again do we go on in slavery to rebellion against God - by continuing to break his Ten Commandments or are we in fact "released from slavery to sin" as Romans 6 says.

I would argue that the only option for the saved Christian is to follow the Word of God EVEN if it contradicts the man-made tradition that the Catholic Document "Faith Explained" highlighted.

Follow the Word of God.

Don't follow SDAs - follow the Bible. If they are right on some Bible point - follow IT. There is no "dispensation" by God that says "you can ignore the Word of God if SDAs are in favor of it because SDAs might be wrong about something else".

3ABN stands for "Three Angels Broadcasting Network" and is a reference to Rev 14:6-9. The Seventh-day Adventists (and I am one) are very focused on highlighting the importance of the 3 messages given in Rev 14:6-9 to the world in these last days.

The reason you see so much focus on the Sabbath is the part of the first Angel's message that says "Fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment HAS COME - WORSHIP Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the sea and the springs of water." (Which is in fact a quote from the 4th commandment - Christ our Creator's Sabbath commandment)

He was probably pointing to this section of God's Word where God Himself spoke audibly to the entire congregation of Israel --

Ex 20
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


In Isaiah 66 God says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" -- speaking of the future "New Heavens and New Earth".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Yes in Mark 2:27-28 Christ makes the point about His own Holy Day that He made Holy in Gen 2:3 for all mankind -- (and is why mankind today has 7 days in a week instead of just having a month-by-the-moon and a year-by-the-sun). "The Sabbath WAS MADE for mankind and not mankind MADE for the Sabbath". Just like Marriage the Sabbath is the only thing that Mankind took away from the Garden of Eden and out into the fallen world.

Both were made FOR mankind.

Hence Christ's statement "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66.

#1. Notice that we don't make that argument for murder. In fact if someone comes to church as a former "murderer" or a former "Adulterer" we do not say "Breaking the Ten commandments is ok after all nobody is that good at keeping them - so don't worry about murdering - that is just your particular challenge. feel good about yourself".

#2. The Ten Commandments define sin - and so the PENALTY that we owe for breaking them has to be paid by Christ if we are to be saved. But Christ argues FOR obedience NOT for rebellion.

"Do we then make VOID the LAw of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

IN Romans 7 Paul says He "AGREES with the Law of God" (not JUST the Sabbath commandment but ALL of the commandments - all of the moral code that defines sin and rebellion).

Good point. Now contrast that to what God said here --

Ex 20
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

If the Ten Commandments are telling us what sin is - then it is sin to ignore Christ the Creator when He defines His own Holy Day.

Gen 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.[/quote]

 

Do a search on Heb 4 for "Jesus IS our Sabbath" -- see what you find.

What you find is that there is a difference between "making stuff up" and what the Bible actually says.

At least that is what I found.

In Christ,

Bob

 

When you see this kind of doublespeak you need to see red flags all over the field!

Now for some facts.

#1. The third commandment is the only one that is not repeated in actual form in the NT.

#2. The Sabbath commandment contains unique language that IS repeated in the NT. It is the ONE we find in Heb 4 "THERE REMAINS therefore a SABBATH REST for the people of God".

#3. In Eph 6 we see the UNIT of the Ten Commandments referenced where Paul says that the 5th commandment "is the FIRST one with a promise" in that list. It is NOT the first command in the BIBLE with a promise but it IS the first one in the Ten Commandment UNIT.

#4. To say that the command "not to murder" needed to be done away with ONLY to come back again - is to argue "doublespeak" nonsense.

Hmmm.

And "yes" it was "MADE for Mankind" Mark 2:27-28

And "yes" it is CHRIST the Creator's own day Mark 2:28.

And "yes" it WILL be kept "By ALL mankind in the New Heavens and New Earth" Isaiah 66.

And "yes" God DID make it His Holy day in Gen 2:2-3 just as He said.

But.... let's ignore it anyway and then "pretend" that this is a "good sin" - better yet - let's pretend it "is sin" to honor Christ the Creator's Holy Day as backward as that might be.

IN Christ,

Bob

 

WoW! What a fun thread!

 

Nothing at all made up, here it clearly is...

Hebrews 4:6-16:


1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
"So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." 5And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."

6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts." 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. 14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

:jesus:

 

I do agree that Christ is our High Priest and as Heb 7 points out - he takes the place of the shadow type in the earthly high priest that ministered in the earthly sanctuary.

But Heb 4 has nothing in it of the form "Christ IS our Sabbath".

In 1Cor 5 we DO have the statement "Christ our Passover HAS been slain" so it is certainly in the realm of reason that IF Paul wanted to say "Christ is now our Sabbath" he had the perfect explicit way to say it -- much as you have done.

It is instructive - that he did not do it. At least not in Heb 4.

What we DO find in Heb 4 is that the ONE Gospel preached to "Them" in the OT was ALSO preached to US! Then speaking of those in the OT that are NOT members of the "Hall of Faith" in Heb 11 the text says that the flaw was in their choice to reject the Gospel - rejecting faith.

2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith

In Christ,

Bob

 

Where are those who would stand up for the Word of God as did D.L. Moody??

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

Fundamental Baptist Institute

http://www.fbinstitute.com/

presents​

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS​

DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:​

​

Exodus 20:2-17 ​

The Fourth Commandment​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy[/b]. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [b]for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.[/b]​

THERE HAS BEEN an [b]awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day[/b], and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

[b]I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, [b]He did nothing to set it aside[/b]; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.

.​

HOW TBSERVE THE SABBATH

​

"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.[/b]
[/quote]
…

[b]Mr. Gladstone recently told a friend that the secret of his long life is that amid all the pressure of public cares he never forgot the Sabbath, with its rest for the body and the soul.
·
When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday,
…
Make the Sabbath a day of religious activity. First of all, of course, is attendance at public worship. "There is a discrepancy," says John McNeill, "between our creed about the Sabbath day and our actual conduct. In many families, at ten o'clock on the Sabbath, attendance at church is still an open question. There is no open question on Monday morning- 'John, will you go to work today.'"

…
Someone has said that without the Sabbath, the Church of Christ could not, as a visible organization, exist on earth.
…
Parents, if you want your children to grow up and honor you, have them honor the Sabbath day.

.​

SABBATH DESECRATION​

Men seem to think they have a right to change the holy day into a holiday. The young have more temptations to break the Sabbath than we had forty years ago.[/b]

.​

PUNISHMENT OR BLESSING?​

No nation has ever prospered that has trampled the Sabbath in the dust. Show me a nation that has done this and I will show you a nation that has got in it the seeds of ruin and decay. I believe that Sabbath desecration will carry a nation down quicker than anything else. Adam brought marriage and the Sabbath with him out of Eden, and neither can be disregarded without suffering. When the children of Israel went into the Promised Land, God told them to let their land rest every seven years, and He would give them as much in six years as in seven. For four hundred and ninety years they disregarded that law. But mark you, Nebuchadnezzar came and took them off into Babylon, and kept them seventy years in captivity, and the land had its seventy sabbaths of rest. Seven times seventy is four hundred and ninety. So they did not gain much by breaking this law. You can give God His day, or He will take it.

On the other hand, honoring the fourth commandment brings blessing:
"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." (Isaiah 58:13-14)
…

? Hasn't the time come to call a halt if men want power with God? Let men call you narrow and bigoted, but be man enough to stand by God's law, and you will have power and blessing. That is the kind of Christianity we want just now in this country. [/b]Any man can go with the crowd, but we want men who will go against the current.

Sabbath-breaker, are you ready to step into the scales?


​

 

The teaching of sabbath, rest and Christ are all connected in Hebrews 4. If you cannot see that from reading the text, then you have missed the context and meaning of the text.

 

Jamieson, Fausset, Brown

Col 2:16

16. therefore--because ye are complete in Christ, and God in Him has dispensed with all subordinate means as essential to acceptance with Him.
meat . . . drink--Greek, "eating . . . drinking" (Ro 14:1-17). Pay no regard to any one who sits in judgment on you as to legal observances in respect to foods.
holyday--a feast yearly. Compare the three, 1Ch 23:31.
new moon--monthly.
the sabbath--Omit "THE," which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Ga 4:10). "SABBATHS" (not "the sabbaths") of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Le 23:32, 37-39).

The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Le 23:38 expressly distinguished "the sabbath of the Lord" from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb 4:9, "rests," Greek, "keeping of sabbath" (Isa 66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Ro 13:8-10).
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002

J-F-B
Gen 2:3 –
3. blessed and sanctified the seventh day--a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days, and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes. The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest ages. It is a wise and beneficent law, affording that regular interval of rest which the physical nature of man and the animals employed in his service requires, and the neglect of which brings both to premature decay. Moreover, it secures an appointed season for religious worship, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and His claims?
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=002

 

I have given you ample room to "show the quote IN the text" it is instructive that you can not.

It is also instructive that D.L.Moody sees no truth in your position and that Jamieson Fausset and Brown also see no fact to the rumor that some suggest for Heb 4 claiming that some place in there is the text "Christ is NOW become our Sabbath" or "Christ IS our Sabbath".'

Such claims will work in a sermon preached to those who already reject Christ the Creator's Holy Memorial of His creative act in Gen 1-2:3 -- but they will not work with a serious Bible student that is intent on honoring Christ's Word "on that point". Most are simply willing to gloss over it and don't bother to "check the text" of Heb 4 to see if the assertion rashly made actually has substance to it.

You having failed to actually produce such a text - I am going to have to stick with God's Word on this one.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Adam Clarke on Gen 2:3 (NOT Bob Ryan)

Verse 3. And God blessed the seventh day
The original word barach, which is generally rendered to bless, has a very extensive meaning. It is frequently used in Scripture in the sense of speaking good of or to a person; and hence literally and properly rendered by the Septuagint ευλογησεν, from ευ, good or well, and λεγω, I speak. So God has spoken well of the Sabbath, and good to them who conscientiously observe it. Blessing is applied both to God and man: when God is said to bless, we generally understand by the expression that he communicates some good; but when man is said to bless God, we surely cannot imagine that he bestows any gifts or confers any benefit on his Maker. When God is said to bless, either in the Old or New Testament, it signifies his speaking good TO man; and this comprises the whole of his exceeding great and precious promises. And when man is said to bless God, it ever implies that he speaks good OF him, for the giving and fulfilment of his promises. This observation will be of general use in considering the various places where the word occurs in the sacred writings. Reader, God blesses thee when by his promises he speaks good TO thee; and thou dost bless him when, from a consciousness of his kindness to thy body and soul, thou art thankful to him, and speakest good OF his name.
Because that in it he had rested
shabath, he rested; hence Sabbath, the name of the seventh day, signifying a day of rest-rest to the body from labour and toil, and rest to the soul from all worldly care and anxieties. He who labours with his mind by worldly schemes and plans on the Sabbath day is as culpable as he who labours with his hands in his accustomed calling. It is by the authority of God that the Sabbath is set apart for rest and religious purposes, as the six days of the week are appointed for labour. How wise is this provision! It is essentially necessary, not only to the body of man, but to all the animals employed in his service: take this away and the labour is too great, both man and beast would fail under it. Without this consecrated day religion itself would fail, and the human mind, becoming sensualized, would soon forget its origin and end. Even as a political regulation, it is one of the wisest and most beneficent in its effects of any ever instituted. Those who habitually disregard its moral obligation are, to a man, not only good for nothing, but are wretched in themselves, a curse to society, and often end their lives miserably. See Clarke on Exodus 20:8.; "Ex 23:12"; "Ex 24:16"; and See Clarke on Exodus 31:13.; to which the reader is particularly desired to refer.
As God formed both the mind and body of man on principles of activity, so he assigned him proper employment; and it is his decree that the mind shall improve by exercise, and the body find increase of vigour and health in honest labour. He who idles away his time in the six days is equally culpable in the sight of God as he who works on the seventh. The idle person is ordinarily clothed with rags, and the Sabbath-breakers frequently come to an ignominions death. Reader, beware.
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=002

 

Bob, you make claims that you are going to stick with God's Word yet you have shown nothing from the text that supports your position in the NT.

But hey, if Moody and J-F-B support your position, then that is clearly enough. What do you do about the hundreds of scholars that do support my position?

Also, if you disagree with my conclusions, then please show me YOUR exegesis of Hebrews 4. What is the rest that God is talking about that is connected with Christ?

 

I do not doubt that salvation is in Christ, that we have the Word of God in Christ and that rest is in Christ IN the OT and in the NT. But it does nothing to void Christ the Creator's own memorial of His creative act in Gen 1-2:3.

Rather as Christ points out in Isaiah 66 -- EVEN in the NEw Heavens and New Earth - "ALL MANKIND" will come before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for the Sabbath was MADE FOR mankind -- all mankind.

As for Heb 4 -- I thought you would never ask.

Coming up.

In Christ,

Bob