Do we have "Two Standings" before God?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ROBERTGUWAPO, May 8, 2006.

  1. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO
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    Dear Brethren,

    Do we have "Two Standings" before God?

    1. The First: God sees as perfect and sinless because the Blood of Christ covereth our sins.
    2. The Second: This is the "Is Your Heart Right with God?" Standing. This is like either our heart is near or far from God's heart.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia
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    :confused:
    Where are you getting #2 from?
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Marcia,

    I believe he referring to the idea that we can be saved, but backslidden. Am I correct?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. ROBERTGUWAPO

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    Well yes, we may be saved but backslidden, or perhaps be in a state of lukewarmness? I heard some pastor say over the radio that although we are blanketed by Christ's perfection, God also pays attention to our very own personal holiness. Does this equate to two standings? Is this a correct view or a wrong one?
     
  5. Marcia

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    I think in terms of salvation, we are judged righteous only because of Christ's righteousness.

    Some believe there is also a judgment for believers on works, which is when rewards are given. We do not know what these rewards are, but the Bible does speak of rewards and a judgment having to do with works. See 1 Cor. 3.15. There are other passages, but I don't have time now to look them up.
     
  6. StraightAndNarrow

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    Some people believe that there will be two, judgments. One to identify those whose name is written in the Book of Life and one to hand out "rewards." Others believe that there will be two judgments, one for the saved and one for the damned.
    Still others believe that there will be five or more judgments for various reasons like entry into the Millenial Kingdom.

    Personally, I believe in One Judgment in which bothe the Book of Life and the record of our lives will be opened. This is described in Rev. chapter 20.

    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
     
  7. dcorbett

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    I was living "out of God's will" for years, even though I was a born again believer from the age of 13. Is that typical of what you are talking about?
     
  8. mima

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    ROBERTGUWAPO; we have one of two standings with God, we are either in(saved) are out(unsaved). And our sins are not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, like the Jewish people's were in the old covenant, but rather our sins have been washed away, never to be held against us again. O I pray that more people could see this truth.
     
  9. gekko

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    never to be held against us again eh?


    ok. so say a true christian - goes out and murders, rapes, lies and steals in one night. then on the way home - gets in a car crash...

    will God overlook those sins of the true christian?
     
  10. Servent

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    "IF" he was a true christian yes, Would a true christrian do that, not unless there was something wrong with his mind.
     
  11. Servent

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    "IF" he was a true christian yes, Would a true christrian do that, not unless there was something wrong with his mind.
     
  12. artjaggard

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    Actually I Cor. 3: 10-15 sheds a little light on the situation:
    Art Jaggard
     
  13. webdog

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    "IF" he was a true christian yes, Would a true christrian do that, not unless there was something wrong with his mind. </font>[/QUOTE]God NEVER overlooks sin. If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us. If we don't, God doesn't just brush it under the rug.
     
  14. genesis12

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    1 John 1:9 addresses agreeing with God that we have fallen short through a particular sin or series of sins. We confess that we have fallen short. When we thus agree, our fellowship with God is restored. If we fail to agree with God that we have sinned, if we fail to confess that we have sinned, we remain out of fellowship.

    1 John 5:16-17 is instructive: "There is a sin unto death. I do not say that we should pray about that" (paraphrased). One who sins his / her way out of fellowship, never admitting that it is his / her sin that is responsible, may have his / her life ended abruptly, yet escape, so as by fire.

    The God's Word translation, 1 John 1:9 reads:

    "God is faithful and reliable. If we confess our sins, he forgives them and cleanses us from everything we've done wrong."

    That scripture is applicable to the separation of oneself from fellowship with God, not "falling from grace."
     
  15. J. Jump

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    So webdog and genesis12 what do you all think happens to those that die in disfellowship with God, but are saved individuals?
     
  16. artjaggard

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    Or for that matter, how many do you know who die in perfect fellowship with our Lord. Even Paul said that he was not perfect nor had attained, yet he pressed on to the mark.

    Art Jaggard
     
  17. genesis12

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    Context, folks. Context. The scriptures are clear. There will be those have been saved who enter into eternal life, barely avoiding the alternative, by the grace of God. Their rewards in Heaven will not be in the "greatest" category. It is God's grace that saves, not man's performance. "Perfect" fellowship is no where mentioned.
     
  18. StraightAndNarrow

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    Let's do talk about context. It's amazing to me how people can decide what's going to happen at the Judgment without looking at the Biblical description. I believe that MA 25 and REV 20 both describe the same event, the Judgement. Look up these two accounts and determine what is common between them.

    Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
    Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
    Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
    Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    **********************************************
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.


    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


    I'll let the Bible speak for itself but I believe it's obvious that Christian works (following acceptance of Christ as our Lord and Savior) play a major part in our eternal destiny.

    Can these descriptions of the Judgement be differently scripturally? How?
     
  19. ROBERTGUWAPO

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    StraightandNarrow,

    Yikes! Is it possible for Christians, who did not "visit, clothe, feed, give drink," to go into everlasting punishment?

    That's because you said that, "Christian works (following acceptance of Christ as our Lord and Savior) play a major part in our eternal destiny."

    Please clarify.
     
  20. Rev. Lowery

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    ????? OK I am saved I know this 100% without any doubt in my mind..........But, If I sin must I ask for forgiveness of that sin? And, If I die 1 second after I sin and dont ask forgiveness do I go to Heaven?

    Now I will answer my own questions.

    1. Yes, because God wants us to know that we did wrong.

    2. Yes, Because of the Blood of Jesus Christ.
     

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