do we really have thousands of homeless with no help?

Nodak, the LDS comments I made come from what I learned of the church while I was a member. They don't exactly do hand-outs. Which IS the point, and is my point too. The people worked for it! Name me ONE government agency that, when you say "I have no food," says "okay, we have an orchard. Come work it and earn food." They did NOT send their members to a state welfare office.

That is good. That is right.

As far as do we have thousands? I don't know the numbers.
You ask if they won't work or can't find work. You're asking if those needs are justified or not.

I'll answer that for EVERYONE. No matter where you are, there are people who are justifiably in need of help and then there are those who can manipulate both charitable organizations and government programs quieter and quicker than a kid sneaking the wrapper off a piece of forbidden candy.

There are SO many different types of people from different backgrounds and different situations that you simply can't put out accurate numbers on whether they meet your own standard of what is needed or not.

I personally think there are a lot of people who honestly think they're needy when they're not.

There are also a lot of government types who believe people are needy when they're not, they just lack convenience items. I posted before about that in another thread...if you're not in the middle of a city, there's not a whole lot of stuff you NEED. Food can be cooked on a fire, a fire can provide warmth, hunting and fishing can provide food, etc..

Anyhow, back to the point. Yeah, there are some honest needs. There are well over 555,000 people in the city I live in. The unemployment rate has about tripled in the last 5-6 years and now is at 6.4% according to the department of numbers.

So are there thousands in need where I live? I'm gonna venture to say yes. Are ALL of them willingly unemployed? I'm gonna have to say no. In fact, people more experienced than I am are getting laid off and I'm still working because they can pay me less. That is sick and sad. It works for me, but is horrible that they are more highly skilled and now jobless and in need.

The tripling of the rate leads me to believe that it's very possible that half of the unemployed right now are not willfully unemployed, since the population only grew by approximately 50,000 in those same years.

So there are those who are needy and won't work for it. There are those who are needy and will. There are those who can't. Etc..

But yes, there is definitely a huge number of justified needs.

But maybe not as true as needs may be in some places overseas. Depends on your definition of need, and in our country, need sometimes has a funny definition. Still, there are families having to give up kids, going homeless, sleeping in cars, scared, kids coming to school hungry and/or dirty and there seems to be more kids having a rougher time emotionally at home when they didn't before mom and/or dad lost their job.

 

No I think you missed the point. This workfare idea is what she is purporting and I alluded to when I mentioned the great capadocians. The fact is she's not making a case for handouts though I believe there is a place for that but taking care of church members rather than judging them based on their situation.

 

I have fought hard for what I have, which is not much. But what I have, is nothing if I cannot share it with those who need it more than I do.

I am reminded of Paul, in his first epistle to the Church at Corinth. Paul siad in chapter 13:

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Well, without love operating in our giving, we are not really giving at all.

Yes, there are many homeless. No, I am not able to help them all. But the fact is, Churches across our great continent seem to be more interested in sending money outside of the USA to feed the less fortunate than they do within the USA.

HUD reported over 643,000 homeless people in the United States in January of 2008. This year, the number has more than doubled. I do what I am able to do to help others, but I am not Bill Gates or Nelson Rockerfeller.... none of us are. But combined, whatever is done helps than much more.

In my last post in the closed thread, I posted 1 Timothy 5:8. We all need to be reminded of that each time we see someone who needs help here in the states.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

No, we do not know whose needs are more important. But a trip to the Town Hall or Police Department could provide us with some areas to look that need help.

In Santa Monica, California there is a whole community of homeless people... living in makeshift shelters on the beach. There are homeless people in practically every town across this nation, so I am sure they are really not too hard to find.

Pray about what God would have us do, where He would have us go.

Some want to have pride in America without being required to lend a hand. Many want to lend a hand but are unable. Many are needing that helping hand.

Can we truly say we are proud Americans when we are unwilling to provide for those on our own home turf? Can we truly say that God is pleased when we send millions of dollars to help the poor in other countries but only a handful to those in need in our own backyard?

As I said, I do what I can. I have fought for what I have, but if what I have means someone in my path has to do without, then I should be ashamed.

 

If they don't want help, you can't help them.

But we must be careful that we don't neglect one because another was in impostor.

At least you offered to help. Many would not even go as far as you did.

 

It isn't that churches won't help, most are doing what they can. It's that the task is often more than the church can effectively help.

For instance, I know a man who lost his job and is having trouble finding one. He has cut down to the bear bones since his wife is the only one working and her salary is too small to pay anything except the necessities. Now, the church he attends helps them with food, which is great. However, because of this reduction in pay he is unable to purchase his needed medication. He needs at least $500 a month. The church cannot take on this burden, and he doesn't expect them to. What is a person in his condition supposed to do?

 

If the Church is giving to out of country missions, they could cut back a little on the out of country missions. If each missionary is given even 20-25 dollars a month less, or a couple missionaries are dropped altogether, the Church might be able to help that man

1 Timothy 5:8 states we should take care of our own first and foremost. The Church is not being faithful stewards of its finances if it is neglecting one of its members and sending money overseas.

 

Lots of accusations and very few answers.

For much of that, there has been too much water under the bridge. The income of the working man is eaten up now by high prices and high taxes. Churches still survive by the offerings of the working people of their congregation, but the people in the congregation is being stipped of income by their own government.

If it is truly God's work to surrender all your wealth to help the needy, we would not have rich evangelists on TV or in large churches, would we? We probably wouldn't have churches spending millions on beautify stained glass windows and recreation centers.

If scamming was not a full time job for many people, we who are skeptical would not be timid with our help, either.

It seems that people want to focus on who is to blame for all this.

May I suggest that the blame issue is a personal one?

It might be a good idea to look around yourself and see if you personally have given away everything you have before you criticize someone else for not doing it.

The examples of how government programs failed to help due to rules that were created by a bureaucrat are a great testimony to the effectiveness of government in the "church business."

 

Many Churches are willing to help as long as you fill out all the forms and take the financial planning classes. They will show you how to arrange your bills so you can pay them all and still be able to tithe and make ends meet.

You may have to do without a phone and television and eat raman noodles and beans. But if you have no food and haven't eaten in days when you walk in, don't worry the human body can hold out for a little while until you complete the course.

Sarcasm fully intended !!!!

 

Have you yet fully impoverished yourself in order to distribute your wealth to the needy?

 

Many churches CAN help---but won't!!! Too many of them guard their finances like it were gold in Fort Knox!!! Untold millions are tied up in unjustifable Certificate of Deposits----I kid you not-----churches with thousands in CD's and not a dime to give to those like Gina describe

No excuse!!

Once a while back our church was having a after church fellowship----one of those Christmas thingy's----------a member came to me while I was talking and said

"Preacher! Someone wants to see you outside!!"

So I went outside----and 5-6 deacons were out there talking to a little young lady I'd never seen before----she was trying to travel to a city on the other side of the state from us---about a 6 hr drive from us----and needed some money for gas

She had three kids with her----and no husband

Appeared to have been on the road for several days

in about 30 seconds I sized up the situation-----told the lady to wait while I went inside ----- I'll be back in 5 minutes

Called my wife over to the fellowship serving line---told her what was going on---and we crammed 4 of those styrofoam plates with lids full of sandwiches, finger foods and chips---went back outside where she was---gave the food to her and the kids

Then I took out my wallet and gave the lady my last $20.00---told her---"There's a gas station about 10 miles down the road---fill up your car there!"-----the money was enough back then to give her a full tank---plenty to get her and the kids where they needed to go

When she pulled out of the church parking lot---get this----one of the deacons looked at me and said

"You just can't trust anybody these days!!!"

and I told him

"No, Sir!!! You can't!!!"

Except---his(the deacon) implication was ---- the lady who just drove off and my emphasis was----the 5-6 deacons standing around "gaukin'" at a woman down on her luck tryin' to get somewhere with a car full of kids and not lifting a finger to help

GOD HELP STINGY PREACHERS AND STINGY DEACONS!!!!! They're worse off than any little young lady needing help-----I size up the situation as----it was the deacons in need of help(spiritually) and not that little lady with those 3 kids!!!!!!

 

Preach it! What a shame. We have become so spiritually intelligent that we are absolutely of no use in the Kingdom. Experts at arguing our way out of doing what should be common sense. Unreal.

 

Well said Brother, well said.....God Bless you

 

Start a meeting of unemployed ....so they share ideas as to what is required to find jobs etc. Also can anyone in the church be used to provide references? Maybe they could do light jobs for others in the congregation that need work done....painting, shoveling snow, cleaning ....something to take their minds off of their condition & feel their contributing. Ive found most want to work but there are few jobs to go around.....its a condition of supply & demand. Currently there is little demand.

 

Its a heart thing my brothers....the heart either turns to stone or it softened to seeing Christ in others....God bless you all.

 

As long as there are people with this attitude, don't expect others to feel sorry for them:

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Homeless_in_the_Cold_112032254.html

It goes on to say:

Don't ask me to help people like this..
I'll help people who want to be helped.

BTW, Blackbird.. I agree with you above!...
A wise person will size up the situation.. and can tell (with an unction of the Holy Spirit) what to do.

 

The problem is when everyone in dire straights looks this way too you.

 

Everyone knows that along with the needy there are the scam artists. We shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater though. We just need to practice discernment and realize that we are giving to the Lord. If someone fools us, they will answer to God.

Mat 10:16 "Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

 

TT .... I dont see where this guys askin for your help anyway. But if your sensitive to it, seek out these tent colonies creeping up in towns across America & go visit them. I'm sure there are those down on their luck that wont have the same story. Please dont harden your heart to God's children.