Do you agree with Cloning Animals or People?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Dec 15, 2006.

  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    Do you agree with Cloning Animals or People?

    If its wrong, why does God give those things life. Nothing can exist without God, no matter what we do. If scientist create cloned individuals or animals...God is still the one who allows that to have life right?? If its wrong.. they why does he allow that. Thanks Tali
     
  2. webdog

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    I don't see anything wrong with cloning PARTS of people. For instance, if some heart tissue can be taken from a damaged heart to create a new one, I see nothing wrong with that. Same with any organ.

    I don't see the need for animals. They have no problem reproducing to supply food.
     
  3. hillclimber1

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    Mostly it's people that are clowns, but I've seen some cute dog clowns.:)
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Col 1
    15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
    16 For by Him
    all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth
    , visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities all things have been created through Him and for Him.
    17 He is before all things, and
    in Him all things hold together.


    ALL things exist because of Him - not just cloned sheep.

    Lucifer - (Satan), Hitler, George Manson, Timothy McVey, Jim Jones, Saddam Housein - all the suicide bombers -- they all were allowed and caused to "exist" by the sustaining life-giving work of Christ - God the Son. Free Will enabled them to choose right or wrong - but God the Son enabled them "period".

    This principle did not begin with cloning.

    Suppose God had not "allowed" Lucifer to live. Or what if He had not allowed Lucifer to "think that prideful thought all the way through". Lucifer would never have known his thought was interrupted or cut short - none the wiser he would continue to serve God.

    In Christ,

    Bob



     
  5. Brother Bob

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    Don't believe in cloning pesay but if they could take a little piece of my heart and make me a new one, I could go along with that for I am not done preaching yet.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    That is true - growing spare body parts would be useful
     
  7. Dustin

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    I've thought about this a few times. It gets kinda philisophical. Would a cloned person have a soul? I don't know. I don't think cloning a human being would work anyway, there'd be problems. At least I think so. Do I agree with cloning humans? No. Animals are a different story, I'd have to think more on it. But officially: animals, maybe. Humans, no.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    Amen Brother, I'd give you a piece of mine if it help. You may start liking instruments in Church but other than that you'd be ok.
     
  9. Scarlett O.

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    Why don't you ask the next set of identical twins. One twin is the literal clone of the other.
     
  10. Dustin

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    Scarlett, I didn't think of that. What I was thinking was that God, in His soveriegnty, gave man the means to clone human beings. I know that we COULD, God gave us the means to do so, but just because we can doesn't mean we should. I was thinking of the implications of "man creating man".
    It's prolly a philosophical rabbit trail, but I think it deserves a little thought.
     
  11. Scarlett O.

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    I'm not really a fan of the idea of cloning, even for body parts. That opinion could change, however, if myself or a member of my family were in need of a spare body part, I will admit that.

    But even though I don't care for the idea, I don't think of cloning as man creating man.

    It's along the same line (although not the same process) as any other reproductive procedure outside the womb, such as invetro, etc.

    Man isn't creating anything. If an infertile couple gets pregnant via a petri dish, the doctors may have assisted the sperm and the egg to unite, but they didn't create the sperm and egg and therefore didn't create life.

    The idea of cloning is the same to me. Science may be able to transfer the fertilized genetic information from any typical cell into the unfertilized egg cell from host female and make a genetic duplicate of the donor, but they haven't created anything.

    They have only copied it.

    Just like any normal reproduction the cloned embryo would develop normally into the host mother's womb, but not be biologically related to the host mother.

    If it were human, it would have a personality all of its own and a soul all of its own, completely separate from the donor.

    I don't see the necessity in cloning animals or humans, but I don't see it as a violation against God in an attempt to create anything. I just see it as a fruitless endeavor.

    Creation comes from God and God alone.
     
  12. Dustin

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    You and me are closer on this than I thought, I couldn't get the words out though. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. Dustin

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    Yeah, what I was thinking that man isn't really doing anything other than using means God gave.
     
  14. Trotter

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    Cloning organs is fine with me. Cloning animals is just a waste of time and money. Cloning people is just wrong.

    But, a clone would have a soul. For, even though man manipulated nature to make the clone, it is God who formed it in His image... be it a naturally conceived man or a laboratory-made one.
     
  15. LeBuick

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    Interesting comment, this really stuck out to me. Would a clone have a soul? A while back there was controversy when I explained my belief that life begins at birth. A clone can never be born so I don't believe they "live". Life I believe is more than a heart that pumps and lungs that breath and I truly believe it's a gift only God can give.

    Going along with your thought, who would be responsible for that soul? Would Jesus' blodd extend to a soul made by man? Can a man made soul transgress against God?
     
  16. Scarlett O.

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    LeBuick, you and waaaay to many others have watched a little too many science fiction movies. :laugh: :laugh:

    Just kidding. :flower:

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you included. I, personally believe that life begins when an egg cell that has been penetrated and fertilized by a sperm cell implants itself on the wall of the uterus. Not until then does the supernatural miracle of it being to do anything or to grow occur. If it never implants itself, it never starts the life process of growth and development and the mother's body naturally expels it.

    Well, here I am going to have to disagree with you. Clones are born. To oversimplify things, an egg cell from a host mother has its genetic information sucked out of it and replaced with the genetic information of another organism that is already alive, having both a mother and a father's genetic information in each cell.

    The egg cell, now containing fertilized information from a donor is placed in a host mother's body. LeBuick, it will either attach implant itself in the wall of uterus or it won't. If it does, then a normal pregnancy (if you can call it that) occurs and whenever the gestation period is over, for whatever animal you are talking about, then a normal birth occurs.

    So yes, clones are born.....normally.

    If you are talking about a human, then whenever God decides to create a living soul and impart it into the embryo, that's His business.

    The one who created the soul....the only Living Being who can create that soul...God, Himself, would be responsible.

    Man cannot create a soul nor destroy a soul.

    Man cannot create life.....he can only manipulate life's functions and he can only take life.
     
  17. Aaron

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    To clone anything, one still needs an egg. All that happens is the nucleus is taken out of the egg, and a nucleus with 46 chromosones extracted from some other body cell is transfered in and the embryo begins to develop. It is human, and it has a soul.

    There is no magic in the sex act or in the womb that imparts life to an individual of which a petrie dish is void. The only difference is that we do not have the technology to maintain that life for long outside of the womb.

    To Lebuick: In your opinion, are children delivered by C-section "alive," not having passed through the birth canal?
     
  18. LeBuick

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    So if I understand, you believe God has blessed cloning because he has given life and a soul to that which was cloned?

    I admit, I have not studied the process of cloning but what you describe sounds very close to artificial insemination. I assume there is a difference. What I do know about human clonig is the best we have done so far is to make human tissue. I don't know if that is a medical, scientific or legal limitation.
     
  19. tragic_pizza

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    I don't think it's a question of blessing cloning at all.

    It's a matter of God's love to all humankind.

    You can't quantify the soul, point it out in an EKG or demonstrate its existence through blood tests or an MRI. Thus by default a human, cloned or not, is a living human being loved of God and posessed of a God-given soul. To think of them or treat them any differently would make us like unto Hitler.
     
  20. Scarlett O.

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    That's a fair question and deserves an answer.

    No, I do not believe God has blessed cloning. I don't believe that the scientific principle has anything to do with a blessing. He has apparently allowed cloning to work, but that does not mean He has blessed anything.

    Could you not make this same analogy?

    I do not believe that God blesses the actions of a rapist, but their are women everyday who become impregnated through a rape and their are people walking the earth whose biological fathers raped their biological mothers.

    And think of how many untold millions of people who have walked the earth who parents were fornicators and adulterers. God does not bless those actions either, but for some reason He sometimes allows children to be conceived in the process.

    Then again, there are christians couples who are devoted to each other and to God who cannot concieve. Does this mean God is punishing them or not blessing them? No....not by any stretch of the imagination.

    Life is in God's hands. Why He allows fertilization in some instances and not in others will never be ours to understand.

    Yes, there is a difference. In artifical insemination, you start with a separate egg and sperm.

    In cloning you start with an egg and a live cell from a donor.

    But you end up implanting them both back into a host mother.

    I agree. I do not believe that anyone has fully cloned a human being even though there are some kooks out there who say that they have.

    The animals that have been cloned (sheep, cat,....) did not live a full life span.
     

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