Do you agree with this statement?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by SaggyWoman, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
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    Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past will be any different.

    Do you agree with this?
     
  2. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
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    No!

    And all this is just so the site will accept my reply
     
  3. JamieinNH

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    No, in my opinion Forgiveness is where hope comes from, not the other way around.
     
  4. Salamander

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    Forgiveness is the only thing that can change the outcome of the past, that is hope in action. Never is hope, to make the best of the past, to be considered a giving up!

    Those words are the ones of some one who wishes to remain in defeat and in the gall of bitterness.
     
  5. swaimj

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    If the situation is one in which one is offering forgiveness to another who refuses to repent, then forgiveness is the hope that, in the end, God will do what is right. I think this is greater hope than the above statement reflects.

    If the situation is one in which the forgiveness offered is accepted, then reconciliation is the result. That is a result that is far and away better than the above statement reflects.

    I think the statement is far too pessimistic in its tone.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    No, the past isn't going to be any different whether you forgive or not. Forgiveness is, in part, determining that the future will not be based on the past because you make a promise to treat others like God has treated you.
     
  7. Salamander

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    Forgiveness will change one's retrospect of the past, thus the past is definitely changed!

    We rely too much in the case of trespasses, to hold to the exact details of the past. And all too much according to our view of the intentions of those who tresspass against us, if we could only see through their eyes and know the frame of mind they were in at the time, we'd be better physicians and psychiratrists.
     
  8. rbell

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    No...forgiveness is the releasing of a debt. You no longer hold someone indebted to their past transgressions.

    However, it is not past-focused. Forgiveness is future-focused. It is a "from now on" kind of action.
     
  9. Jim1999

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    My blackeye will still be there when I forgive the woman who gave it to me, but we can start afresh from that point of forgiveness.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. Salamander

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    Nope, my designation for sin was hell, according to my past, now i am forgiven and my future is Heaven, but now my past designation is changed, the past is therefore changed.

    God knew my sin in the past, now I am forgiven and He doesn't know what sin, thus my past is forever changed.:godisgood:
     
  11. Salamander

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    And your black eye will eventually heal along with the feelings you experienced at that time, in the past, and now due to your forgiving, those feelings have been changed.
     
  12. rbell

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    OK, I'll agree that it changes how we look at our past. And perfect forgiveness--that God is able to give, and we humans can only acheive a shadow of--is a "forgive and forget" that we can try to attain, but we'll never quite get this side of eternity...we always remember (even if we forgive).
     
  13. Salamander

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    And isn't this the exact reason and purpose for total dependence upon Christ, to live as if the past is completely changed, and cast down imaginations and everything that exalteth itsself against God?
    YES!:godisgood:
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    In a word, no. The past isn't changed. If someone commits adultery, their spouse may forgive them (and must, biblically). But that doesn't change the fact that it happened.

    Your statement is along the lines of thinking creating reality. It doesn't. The reason we must forgive is because the past cannot change.
     
  15. Salamander

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    God requireth that which is past. God also casts our sin as far as the east is from the west. God does not require forgiven sin to hold its finality of death except to the regard of the existence of the flesh. We are to be led of the Spirit and not the flesh. We are more than conquerors in Christ when we allow the grace of God to chagne our past as if it never happened.

    Holding onto the past is disbelief in what God wants for us all. He sets the example, men attempt to disannul what God demands.

    I will do my best to obey the Lord and live, yet not I live, but Christ liveth within me! I then can live as if the past is forver changed and forgiven!:godisgood:
     
  16. Jim1999

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    We learn from the past to make the future different.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    But it doesn't change the past. That's the point. God treats us as if it never happened, but it still happened.

    Of course. No one is saying hang on to the past. But forgiveness does not undo the past.

    But the past isn't changed. That's the point. The sins you committed do not suddenly become uncommitted. If they did, there would be no need for forgiveness.
     
  18. Salamander

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    Not as far as God is concerned am I to be concerned, therefore the past is forever changed when I release the emotion thus tearing down the stronghold.

    Then you would have all Christians facing all their sin, go to pergatory to do penance and then hope to be prayed out so they could then go to heaven.

    I have not said there isn't ramification for sin. I have said and will continue to declare the forgiveness of God can change everything about the past.

    You're applying man's philosophical reasonings to something that displaces the past by and through grace, and THAT being a Divine work to forever change that which is past.

    I'm sorry if you're only viewing this from a material perspective, but we're talking Bible, not material.

    Forgiveness is the action to relieve hurt, anxiety, bitterness, etc., so we can now operate from the new man and lay the old man back in the grave.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    Got any Bible, since according to you we are discussing Bible? The past is not changed. Sorry. If you kill someone, you can be forgiven, but the person will still be dead and you will be the killer.

    Not at all because first, there is no purgatory, and second because God forgives in Christ.

    You will continue to be incorrect.

    No, I am speaking simply about the Bible teaching.

    I am not talking about material at all.

    Again, got any Bible? The Bible doesn't teach this. Forgiveness releases one from obligation to repay past debts. When God forgave us in Christ, Christ "bore our sin" in his body. He took our guilt from us thereby releasing us from guilt. It doesn't mean we didn't sin.
     
  20. Salamander

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    And according to grace the real offense is against God and He forgave so the past become irrelevent. II Cor 5:17

    Yes He does and there is no purgatory, but when He forgives He forgets, so whose example should we follow? Yours, or His!

    I am correct and justified in the premise wherein I am standing. You've placed too much emphasis on the temporal as if it holds precedence over the eternal.

    Scripture please?

    material and temporal are synonomous in this case of grace.

    It does mean we're sinless as far as our position in Christ is concerned. That is what God is concerned about, therefore I am not to be concerned about the devil's condemning me for past sins.

    This is true according to the fact we'll be like Him, SINLESS!:godisgood:

    The only things I will answer for is to be taken away in the fire of testing as wood, hay and stubble. Those things were for vain glory which is sin that is already forgiven and forgotten in Christ, now it's time I start living like it!:jesus:
     

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