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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Askjo, Dec 9, 2005.
Look at the link: Rapture
There are probably only a few here that do not believe in some sort of rapture in the future; the catch is, when?
For my two cents, I see the pretribulation rapture the best fit for everything that is written in the Bible about eschatology.
I agree that the pre-trib rapture theory is "the best fit for everything that is written in the Bible about eschatology." Other views just don't seem to "add up," IMHO.
I agree that the pre-trib rapture theory is "the best fit for everything that is written in the Bible about eschatology." Other views just don't seem to "add up," IMHO. </font>[/QUOTE]
A Google search says:
Results 1 - 10 of about 615 from baptistboard.com for rapture "Baptist Theology & Bible Study ". (0.84 seconds)
So there are 615 pages of the Baptist Theology
& Bible Study with the word 'rapture' on it.
Over in the all denominations:
Results 1 - 10 of about 559 from baptistboard.com for rapture "Other Christian Denominations ". (0.35 seconds)
why do we need another topic on this subject?
You might also read:
I've been discussing this subject for
three years and four months on this board.
Please read them before starting new topics on
the same subject.
BTW, the word 'rapture' DOES APPEAR in a Bible.
It just probably isn't in your English Bible.
I Thessalonians 4:17 in the Latin Bibles
has 'rapture' where we have 'caught up' in
our Enlgish Bibles.
Technically, the Latin Bibles have "rapiemur", but close enough.
LOL, it doesn't matter what any of us 'believe' in this area. What will happen will happen regardless of our beliefs and arguments. For the record, I do agree that a pre-trib rapture best fits the biblical evidence and I do think that is what the Thessalonians were terribly disturbed that they might have missed! In other words, it appears that this is what even the early church was looking for.
Israel was given back to the Jews in 1948, the year I was born. The Jews took Jerusalem in June of 1967, in the Six Day War. If THIS generation is to see these all these things, then the Rapture may well happen before I die. I don't mind that a bit!
Why do you believe in post-trib instead of pre-trib? Explain.
Why do you believe in post-trib instead of pre-trib? Explain. </font>[/QUOTE]See the articles on that website for an explanation.
In Thessalonians, I wonder why Paul didn't simply answer the ones who thought they had missed it by simply stating : "It couldn't have
happened, I'm still here!" but when on to tell
them what things must come to past first.
I believe in the rapture, at the second coming!
PS. I agree with Ed, isn't there like 100 topics/debates on this already!?
tfisher, that would not have helped any of them with understanding when another fake pronouncement came along! It's sort of a theological case of teaching a man to fish being better than handing him a fish...
I believe in the rapture, at the second coming!"
Amen, Brother Todd.
They both happen the same day.
And some places this is called
THE DAY OF THE LORD.
It is same 'day' as Daniel's 70th
'week', i.e. 7 years.
The rapture happens at the beginning of
the 7-year/week/day and the Second Coming
of the Lord happens at the end of that
Technically, the Latin Bibles have "rapiemur", but close enough. </font>[/QUOTE]I wanted to give someone the time;
i didn't want to tell them how to build a clock
Latin has various forms of a word according
to gender, time, etc. 'rapiemu' is a specific
form of a Latin word. The English equivalent
is 'rapture'. I wanted to show the word rapture
is in a Bible, just not the one I use;
I did not want to give Latin lessons
Between the Post-trib view and the Pre-trib view, the post-tribism teaches that all Christians will be taken in the rapture at the end of the 7 yr trib; the pre-tribism teaches that all Christians will be taken in the rapture before the 7 yr trib begins. The post-tribism believes the church will go through the trib time, but the pre-tribism disagrees with that because the post-tribism wrongly defines, "saints" as the church. The definition of "saints" in the Book of Revelation is to become believers during the tribulation time. Millions saved during 7 yr tribulation.
Good to see you back. How is your school at Crown College? I hope you enjoy there, and learning many things.
Both pretrib and posttrib believe there will be rapture. Pretrib teaches there shall be split coming of the second coming. Posttrib teaches there shall be the only one coming at the end of the age.
Why shall you think, 'saints' is not the part of the body of Christ as church?
Throughout in the Bible, 'saints' is always mentioned as Christians, that these are part of the Church. for example in 1 Coritnhians 14:33 says, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in ALL churches of the saints."
We are saints. Saints means the holy ones.
The reason pretrib saying that the saints in the book of Revelation is not church, because they saying, word, 'church' is not find anywhere from chapter 4 to 19, prove that church is already gone up in the heaven at the rapture of Rev. 4:1.
Pretrib have lot of errors and misinterpretations. Myself was pretrib before.
Rev. 4:1 have do nothing with second coming or resurrection. Rev. 4:1 is speaks of John's experince of the vision. That he was talked with the angel. The angel talked to him as the voice sound of the trumpet, told him, 'hither up'. JOhn, himself was called up ALONE, as his spirit went up to heaven to meet the angel, and angel shows him the future things.
Word, 'hither' find three times in the book of revelation, which was speaken toward John - Rev. 4:1; 17:1; and 21:9.
Rev. 17:1 says: "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, 'Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters."
Rev. 17:1 have do nothing with rapture, second coming, resurrection. This verse talks about the angel asked John, to come here, and to show him the judgements of Babylon.
Rev. 21:9 says: "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plaques, and talked with me, saying, 'Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."
Rev. 21:9 have do nothing with rapture, second coming, resurrection. This verse talks about the angel asked John, to come here, and to show him the city of Lamb's wife-New Jerusalem.
Rev. 4:1 says: "After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was AS it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, 'Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
Pretrib inteprets Rev. 4:1 speak of rapture, because the word, 'trumpet' is there, as it refers with 1 Thess. 4:16 of 'trump' & 1 Cor. 15:52. THere is misunderstand of Rev. 4:1. THey misintepreting Rev. 4:1.
'Trumpet' of Rev. 4:1 is not a literal thing, but figuratively, John told us, he heard the voice sound LIKE AS a trumpet. Similar with Rev. 1:10 says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, AS of a trumpet,"
Rev. 1:10 is not talking about rapture, second coming, resurrection. This verse talks about John heard the voice sound like as trumpet. Noifce, John says, "I was in the spirit". This does not mean that he was change into immortality of 1 Cor. 15:51-54 is the picture of rapture. This is speaks of John's experince that he was led by the Spirit by vision. Notice verse 10- "on the Lord's day", there are two views of this, some saying it is the day of the Lord(seven year of tribulation period), some saying it is Sunday.
To my understanding, it means, John told us, that day was in year around 95 A.D. in that day the Lord came to him by the REVELATION(supernatural communication), as he received the vision while he was talking by the angel, even also Jesus Christ too.
'Come up hither' of Rev. 4:1 have do nothing with rapture. THis is speak of called John up.
I have an illustration for 'come up hither'.
Chris and his friends playing softball outside in his home yard. When Chris hit ball with bat. The ball fly toward the window of his home. The ball hit his parent's bedroom on the second floor of house. While his father in the living room, reading newspaper, suddenly, he hear noise above. Then, he walks upstair and checkup, he finds broken window, and look down the ball in his bedroom, then he walks toward broken window, and he looks at Chris outside, he shouts to Chris, "Come up hither now please!" Chris runs into the house, and go upstair, into his parents' bedroom. And his father rebukes Chris.
See? 'Come up hither' of Rev. 4:1 is not talking about rapture, or second coming, or resurrection, or gathering together either. This verse is talking about, John was called up to meet the angel. The voice of the trumpet of Rev. 4:1 was from angel's voice, as he talked to John alone!!
We have to be careful, what we interpreting what the scripture saith. Many of us easily misunderstanding what these actual saying.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I visited Crown College 3 months ago, but I do not enter that college. For God's will, I consider to enter there 2 yrs later.
DeafPosttrib: //'Trumpet' of Rev. 4:1 is not a literal
thing, but figuratively, John told us, he heard the
voice sound LIKE AS a trumpet. Similar with Rev. 1:10
says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
and heard behind me a great voice, AS of a trumpet,"//
Reading between the lines I hear you saying
"I allow God to use a similie in Revelation 4:1
but I don't allow God to use a metaphor in
1 Thessalonians 4:16
1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For the Lord himselfe shall descend from heauen
with a shout, with the voyce of the Archangel,
and [v]with the trumpe of God[/b]: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first.
Anyway, thou you go on for 8 paragraphs about Revelation 4:1
you miss the Blessing that God has for you:
the pretribulation Rapture of the Saints is of the
type 'come up hither' AS/LIKE John in Rev 1:4.