Do you believe, once saved always saved

I am proud to say that I serve a God who is strong enough not only to save my soul from Hell (which, by the way , I deserve), but I serve a God who is able to always keep me safe from the hell He saved me from. I think the word "omnipotent" or all powerful comes into play here. If The Almighty, omnipotent, God I serve can actually let my soul stray far enough away that my salvation could be lost, would He be no better than the pagan gods served by all those who havnt accepted Christ as their savior?

 

He would still be better.

 

Unscriptural, ha! If it is, we would not having this debate. It is possible that you are deceived on this one.

Participant, recipient???
What? Okay, did you accept it or not? To receive something you still have to do SOMETHING. Quit being silly.

Sheesh brother, calling me liar, thanks. Oh, what a Godly person you are. “Asinine” huh? I really do not think my comment was asinine but thanks for the insult.

This post from you is where I drew the conclusion that you believe everyone is saved. The “all” confused me. Sorry, for thinking the wrong thing about your post and coming to the wrong conclusion. I do not know why you keep calling me liar because I came to the wrong conclusion on your post. Lighten up buddy.

I have already answered your questions about how many sins one can commit. Go back and read my posts. I even wrote up a little story for better understanding. I am not sure about you or any other believer but I know I could never commit adultery, steal, or commit murder when I am walking with God.
If you do, I would be questioning your salvation.

True faith will have good works, without good works faith is dead. Continuing to be disobedient without repenting = one losing their faith = losing their salvation.


Baptist in Richmond,
If you decide to reply back, which I hope you do not because your posts do offend me. I most likely will just read it and ignore it because you have personally attacked me more than once. Your statements have made me feel that you are person I do not care to fellowship with. Which is very odd because I always get along with other true believers. I even recall having a debate about this with another member and he was able to get his point across without offending me, so I am not sure what your deal is.

 

Unscriptural ah?
It is written, AND YOU, THAT WERE SOMETIME ALIENATED AND ENEMIES IN YOUR MIND BY WICKED WORKS, YET NOW HATH HE RECONCILED IN THE BODY OF HIS FLESH THROUGH DEATH, TO PRESENT YOU HOLY AND UNBLAMEABLE AND UNREPROVABLE IN HIS SIGHT (Paul is speaking to the saved, to the believers. He now gives them a warning): IF YE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH GROUNDED AND SETTLED, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL-Col 1:21-23. No guarantees. Just a warning to those who are in the faith. That warning is once you are saved, you can fall away, "if" you do not continue in the faith, grounded and settled. There is also another "if." If you be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel. The key is the word "FAITH." We must also remember, that faith without works is dead. How often do we hear a message on faith with works and obedience? It seems, because so many cults are preaching that works save you, our churches have gone in the opposite direction. We seem to forget that works make faith perfect (or complete). We are not saved by works, but through faith. However, if our faith is not followed by works, there is no faith; and we are lost. The Bible tells us, BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, AND NOT HEARERS ONLY-Ja 1:22. Paul’s message in Col 1:21-23, makes it very clear. You were enemies, but now you are reconciled. You have put off the old and have been renewed. Yes, you are saved, but only "if" you continue in the faith. As we study the messages of the epistles, we see a pattern. You are saved, but do not go back to the way you were, or you will be lost, cut off, and your name removed from the book of life. You are saved; "but if" you return to your old ways, you are lost.
As we proceed, we see there is no contradiction. All the verses harmonize perfectly together. All the verses (those that appear to say we can lose our salvation, and those that appear to say we cannot), need to be put together. When this is done, the complete picture is presented. No longer is there "denominational doctrine," but the beauty of God’s Word in perfect harmony and truth.
Paul told us in Col 1:22,23-You are RECONCILED…TO PRESENT YOU HOLY AND UNBLAMEABLE AND UNREPROVABLE IN HIS SIGHT: IF YE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH. Faith is required to stand.
Jesus said, IF YE KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YE SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE. He is speaking to those who are already saved. As we see Him say in the next verse, THESE THINGS HAVE I SPOKEN UNTO YOU, THAT MY JOY MIGHT REMAIN IN YOU-Jn 15:10,11. If the joy might remain, then they already have it. They are saved. Yet, is not Jesus warning them that they could lose His joy?
It is written, THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS-2 Jn 6. BY THIS GOSPEL YOU ARE SAVED, IF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD...OTHERWISE YOU HAVE BELIEVED IN VAIN-1 Cor 15:2 NIV. Again, we see they believed. We see once more, the message, if you do not hold firmly to the Word, then you are lost; you have believed in vain. You may be saved, but you can also fall away and be lost.
Another verse warns us to STAND FIRM, THEN, AND DO NOT LET YOURSELVES BE BURDENED AGAIN BY THE YOKE OF SLAVERY-Gal 5:1 NIV. Paul is telling them, it is possible to fall back into the bondage or yoke of slavery to Satan. You were a slave to sin, but now you are free. However, be careful, or you will fall back to where you were.
It would have BEEN BETTER FOR THEM NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (they were saved), THAN, AFTER THEY HAD KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIVERED UNTO THEM. BUT IT IS HAPPENED UNTO THEM ACCORDING TO THE TRUE PROVERB, THE DOG IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; AND THE SOW THAT WAS WASHED TO HER WALLOWING IN THE MIRE-2 Pe 2:21,22.
FOR WE ARE MADE PARTAKERS OF CHRIST, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST UNTO THE END-Heb 3:14. Again, we see the same warning to the believers. We know they were saved, as it said, CONFIDENCE they had, or the faith they had; as it is written, CONFIDENCE BY THE FAITH-Eph 3:12.
Note, full assurance and hope are byproducts of faith; FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH-Heb 10:22; WAIT FOR THE HOPE…BY FAITH-Gal 5:5; WE ARE SAVED BY HOPE-Ro 8:24. They were warned to hold steadfast unto the end. If they did not, if they fell away, they were not partakers of Christ. They fell back to Satan.
Then Jesus said, TO THOSE JEWS WHICH BELIEVED ON HIM (note this is said to believers, to the saved), IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD (Jesus was warning them they could fall, if they did not continue in His Word. Even though they believed and were saved, He was telling them to be careful, lest they fall back into unbelief and lose their salvation), THEN ARE YE MY DISCIPLES INDEED-Jn 8:31.
AND WE DESIRE THAT EVERY ONE OF YOU DO SHOW THE SAME DILIGENCE TO THE FULL ASSURANCE OF HOPE UNTO THE END: AND SO, AFTER HE HAD PATIENTLY ENDURED, HE OBTAINED THE PROMISE-Heb 6:11,15. Once more, we are being shown that salvation is guaranteed, only to those who hold firm until the very end, the confidence they had at the first. When you first believe, repent, are baptized (by immersion), confess Jesus publicly, and begin the journey of obedience; if through the many trials and tests that come on you (to see if your faith is genuine), you fall away; then the Bible warns, it would have been better for you not to have known the way of righteousness, than after you have known it, to turn away. Jesus warned His followers with this message. The apostles warned their followers. Paul, over and over, warned the believers about losing their faith, thus, losing their salvation. Are you hearing this message?
It is written, NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH (the saved): BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK (Draw back from what? His faith), MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM-Heb 10:38.
Again, Jesus tells us, HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED-Mt 10:22. We are not born-again at the end are we? Are we not born-again the moment we repent and submit to God's righteousness by faith? Yet, the Scriptures tell us, we are saved IF we endure to the end, IF we do not draw back, and IF we do not fall away. We may be born-again (saved), but if we do not hold firm all the way, we are cut off from the "tree"-ref Ro 11:17-22.
WHEREFORE LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL-1 Cor 10:12. Fall from what? Fall from his faith, from his salvation back into Satan’s domain. But God gives us comfort, as the Scripture says, THERE HATH NO TEMPTATION TAKEN YOU BUT SUCH AS IS COMMON TO MAN: BUT GOD IS FAITHFUL, WHO WILL NOT SUFFER YOU TO BE TEMPTED ABOVE THAT YE ARE ABLE; BUT WILL WITH THE TEMPTATION ALSO MAKE A WAY TO ESCAPE, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO BEAR IT-1 Cor 10:13.
The key to putting all the verses together is the parable of the sower. Although we have already covered this earlier in the text, you may now have a deeper understanding of the Scriptures. Remember, the key to knowledge is the fear of the Lord. As it is written, THE FEAR OF THE LORD, THAT IS WISDOM; AND TO DEPART FROM EVIL IS UNDERSTANDING-Job 28:28.
28-JESUS EXPLAINS THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER
A SOWER WENT OUT TO SOW HIS SEED: AND AS HE SOWED, SOME FELL BY THE WAY SIDE; AND IT WAS TRODDEN DOWN, AND THE FOWLS OF THE AIR DEVOURED IT. AND SOME FELL UPON A ROCK; AND AS SOON AS IT WAS SPRUNG UP, IT WITHERED AWAY, BECAUSE IT LACKED MOISTURE. AND SOME FELL AMONG THORNS; AND THE THORNS SPRANG UP WITH IT, AND CHOKED IT. AND OTHER FELL ON GOOD GROUND, AND SPRANG UP, AND BARE FRUIT AN HUNDREDFOLD.
Then Jesus explains the parable. THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.
1) THOSE BY THE WAY SIDE ARE THEY THAT HEAR; THEN COMETH THE DEVIL, AND TAKETH AWAY THE WORD OUT OF THEIR HEARTS, LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED. These people do not get saved. They refuse to be baptized by immersion, and they are disobedient. They are full of excuses. They might profess to be Christians, but by their actions they deny Him. They wander in darkness, not knowing where they are going, yet feeling secure. They might know the Scriptures (but not obey them), or they may hardly know any Scripture.
2) THEY ON THE ROCK ARE THEY, WHICH, WHEN THEY HEAR, RECEIVE THE WORD WITH JOY; AND THESE HAVE NO ROOT, WHICH FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, AND IN TIME OF TEMPTATION FALL AWAY. These are people who do indeed believe. They receive the Word with joy. They have followed in obedience, to repent and be baptized by immersion. They are born-again. They have received the Holy Spirit. Now, their faith will be tested through temptations, to see if it is genuine. Only
those who stand firm to the end will be saved. Time after time, we have seen through the Scriptures a warning. Once you are saved, if you do not stand firm, you will be cut off. Once you are saved, if you give in to temptations, and turn away from God, your name can be taken out of the book of life.
3) AND THAT WHICH FELL AMONG THORNS ARE THEY, WHICH, WHEN THEY HAVE HEARD, GO FORTH, AND ARE CHOKED WITH CARES AND RICHES AND PLEASURES OF THIS LIFE, AND BRING NO FRUIT TO PERFECTION. These people are also born-again. They hear the Word and receive it. They have begun their journey in obedience. They have repented and been baptized. They are born-again. However, they are choked with the cares of this world; and they fall away. They lose their salvation. They are cut off. They fall from grace. Some fall and are cut off, because of the riches of this world. Some go back into the world because of the pleasures of this life. Study the epistles. Over and over, they warn the believers. The message is frequently repeated in the Scriptures. You are saved. You have faith. You believe. But now, you must hold firm to the confidence which you had in the beginning. But now, you must continue in the faith, grounded and settled. But now, you must not be moved away from the hope of the Gospel. But now, you must keep His commandments. But now, you must hold firmly to the Word; you must continue in His Word. But now, you must show the same diligence, to the full assurance of hope to the end. Finally, you must not draw back. Paul told the believers, that they were BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS-Ro 1:7. But now, watch out. Satan will come and try to draw you away. If you go back into sin, back into the love of this world, back to where you were before you were saved, then you will be cut off. You will lose your salvation and will be worse off than before.
4) BUT THAT ON THE GOOD GROUND ARE THEY, WHICH IN AN HONEST AND GOOD HEART, HAVING HEARD THE WORD, KEEP IT, AND BRING FORTH FRUIT WITH PATIENCE-Lk 8:5-15. Just a few will make it to this point. Just a few will not fall away. Just a few will find that narrow gate that leads to eternal life.
The parable of the sower is the key to all the verses we have covered. It provides us with an outline to help us understand God’s marvelous Word.
The Bible tells us, BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM.
NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, SHALL ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY (the day of judgment), LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (Doesn’t this sound like they are saved?) AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY-Mt 7:20-23. Even while standing at the judgment, they believe they are saved. They seem to be saying, "Lord, we accepted You as our Saviour" (in other words, Lord, Lord), but Jesus is saying back to them that He never knew them. Jesus did not accept them. We might ask, "Why? How could this be?" The answer lies in the previous verse: Only those who do THE WILL OF MY FATHER enter into the kingdom of heaven-Mt 7:21.

 

BiR,
There is more where the previous post came from. I choose not to post because you will choose to ignore it and call me a liar or say that I am taking the Bible out of context.
Like I said before I have read all of God's Holy Word and I just cannot believe in OSAS. I have provided why and have been attacked by you.
I am done with this thread.
God bless everyone who has debated his or her belief in a Christ like manner.

 

Wow, that was a long couple-of-posts. I am actually impressed.

Originally posted by Matthew 16:24:
>>I am not sure about you or any other believer but I know I could
>>never commit adultery, steal, or commit murder when I am
>>walking with God.

That is quite an amazing statement. You specifically mention several sins that are deemed by society to be rather heinous. What about those little sins we commit that even the Apostle Paul mentions? Wasn't that the whole point of the Law, to show that we are unworthy of salvation?

>>If you do, I would be questioning your salvation.

I have no problem whatsoever with you questioning my salvation: that is between God and me. I am curious though: why would you be questioning my salvation?

>>True faith will have good works, without good works faith is dead.

I wouldn't disagree with this statement. As a matter of fact, I didn't disagree with this statement.
What about the convict hanging on the cross beside Christ? He had faith without good works.

>>Continuing to be disobedient without repenting = one losing their faith = losing their salvation.

.........and I disagree with your contention that there can be a recission of Grace. Perhaps the person in question never really understood true repentance.

In one paragraph, you tell me to lighten up. Then you inform me that you don't want to fellowship with me and advise that you are offended by my posts. You apologized for what you posted, and I left it at that. Then you claimed that I was speaking for the entire world when I was talking about myself. In fact, the direct quote you provided, I am specifically talking about myself. I never offered any opinion with respect to the world, nor did I imply anything. Was I "offended" by your deduction? No, although I was indeed disappointed by your allegation.

Disassocation was not, and has never been my motive. Quite the contrary, actually: you provided Scripture for your beliefs.

 

What happened to the three page limit!!!!

 

The three page limit only applies to the "News Affecting Baptists Worldwide" forum. After three days, it is no longer 'news'.


Sue

 

The great falling-away is happening right now. It's called the ecumenical movment--unity at the cost of truth.

Anyway...what about that verse in one of the books of Peter that talks about "no more remission for sins?" or something to that effect? Don't get me wrong, I believe in once saved always saved, but that verse has been nagging at me!

 

As Mr. Reed has already noted, He is not a Calvinist. I, however, am. Your words found here are a misrepresentation of what Calvinists believe. Predestination is absolutely found in Scripture, but Mr. Reed has already posted those. Calvinists have been some of the most zealous missionaries and evangelists! George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, C.H. Spurgeon, William Carey (Called "The Father of Modern Missions), Adoniram Judson, etc. Just for your information.

 

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Is this the verse you are talking about? Let it "nag" no more. Christ's sacrifice is TOTALLY sufficient to render our sins and iniquites of none effect. If they have been rendered of none effect then why would we have need of further remission? And IF we have need of further remission then where are we going to find it, since Christ has already been offered and He won't be offered again. You are just out of luck, if you are in need of another sacrifice, because, there isn't going to be another one. You don't need another sacrifice because Christ's remitting of your sins is comlete and your sins and iniquites will He remember no more.

 

Yes. Once saved, always saved, or the Perfect Priceless Price Paid in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ is what, not enough? That's a rhetorical question, not meant to insult anyone here.

God bless!

Princess