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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Oct 31, 2012.
Of jesus death upon His Cross?
Yes, I do. Is there any other kind?
yes, as in Moral Influence, Ransom that he paid to satan as god of this world, jesus as the Victor etc!
Those are all a figment of the imagination of fallen mankind! Perhaps I should say a figment of the imagination of the carnal mind!
I ditto Rev's ditto......
The OP is like asking the question, "Do you need air to breath?"
Yes, who are these crazy people who believe that Jesus Christ is the Victor, or that we should follow his moral example of self-sacrifice...Crazy, unbiblical ideas, I TELL YA! (i'll agree on the ransom paid to satan front).
btw, Yeshua, in case you didn't hear, Michael Wrenn Got booted from this section because the Moderators decided he wasn't Baptist...so You probably won't get any bites on this one.
I'm not sure I understand either of you to be sarcastic or serious here.
I was attempting to be humorous by pointing out that OldRegular was in effect saying that "Christ as victor" et all, were figments of humanity's fallen minds...
There are a number of legitimate ways of understanding and framing the atonement.
While my preference is for a substitutionary atonement, I appreciate other views which give us other dimensions of the atonement.
You apparently do not understand the OP. Not understanding the OP you cannot understand my response to Yeshua!'s post!
Three are a number of ways, but the Bible only teaches one.
Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
Romans 3:25 God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by His wounds you have been healed.
1 John 2:1-2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Jesus died in our place. Jesus lived a perfect life. He was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. This is what the Bible teaches.
preachinjesus.....slow down....that is twice in one night. :smilewinkgrin:
Yeup, a firm holder of the plenary, substitutionary position.
What is unbiblical with Christus Victor?
I understand the OP. I apologize to all for my failed attempt at humor.
Generally, the Idea of Christus Victor, that Chist's death accomplished victory over sin & death, is Biblical...but the view that takes that name as its title also explicitly denies penal substitution.
So I would say that both Penal Substitution & Christus Victor describe important accomplishments of Christ on the cross.