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Featured Do you Hold to A Substitutionary View On the Atonement?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. humblethinker

    humblethinker Active Member

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    I like what you're saying. Do we really think that with the current view of Penal Substitution or any singular view exhaustively defines the atonement? Really? BB: Is the work of theology complete? If so, please tell me when it reached that point.
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the death of Jesus Christ on the cross accomplished victory over sin and death. However, the term "Christus Victor" was used by Michael Wrenn to deny the necessity of the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ!
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And it does, at least as far as I have read up on it. Through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ he engaged in battle with the forces of darkness, evil, sin, and Satan, and became the victor. He overcame them. But so what, if there is no payment made for our sins. Isn't that what is important? His argument is that that what was believed for the first 1000 years of history, and that penal or substitutionary atonement was something made up by the Reformers. At this point I don't care who made up what. The question is: "What saith the Lord?"
     
  4. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    So are you going to let Michael monopolize the term so that you can no longer use it? ...or will you use the term and define it more biblically?
     
  5. humblethinker

    humblethinker Active Member

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    And so, you hold both, Christus Victor and Penal Substitution to be biblically defensible, but not exhaustive, views of atonement? What is the harm in this?
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If the atonement was not substitutionary are we not all still dead in sin?
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I might use the term Victory in Jesus and on occasion sing it [monoonically]; but I will not use the term Chistus Victor. I have visited the site that MW referenced and see nothing there of particular merit insofar as atonement is concerned!
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    It's OK, preachinjesus, I understand completely how one can get confused with all the theological terms and semantics we deal with. Penal "or" Substitution, just claim the mathematical "or". One can even "evolve" with their position, which too is just fine. :)

    Blessings
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Semi-serious. I regocnize the Moral Influence view, et al, but my question "Is there any other kind" was meant to convey that the "other kind" didn't have much, if any, validity.
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I would urge all who doubt that the death of Jesus Christ is substitutionary to read Isaiah 53.
     
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    To me, Isaiah 53 settles the argument.
     
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