1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Do You Know Any Charasmatic baptists In Your Church or Friends?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JesusFan, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    This is nonsense. If God were still giving sign gifts, they would be everywhere and they are not. The only thing they are "moving in" is error away from the scripture.
     
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    So ALL who believe in them that are reputable are plainly wrong?
    NOT talking about WoF/Manifast sons/KIngdom now etc

    Those like Dr wayne Grudem!
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Really!?! Nonsense as per your opinion ....shakes head. "Quench not the Spirit brother 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    you mean like this "communion" service?

    THESE PEOPLE LIKE WAYNE GRUDEM AND jOHN PIPER
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK8avF2t6UY

    oh no wait...you said they operate at home...like this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRvvGiREXOU&NR=1
    EWF
    Really!?! Nonsense as per your opinion ....shakes head. "Quench not the Spirit brother 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21
    This is the wrong spirit......this is blasphemous nonsense.
     
    #24 Iconoclast, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2011
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Please stick to the"reputable" Christians in this, not the fakes and heretics!
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    JF,

    Where are the reputable ones? Everyone cops out when they are called on this garbage....I could put up hundreds of these...because there are no reputable ones..... Grudem and Piper do not even claim these "supposed" gifts, they just open the door to many.
    Everyone holds out for the prayer tongue, lol.....this is nonsense
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU9lZD7qB7s&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K08OKQJIwYw&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxsd6mmMqes&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO6R1zVCw1M&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omy24KC3LzU&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSCuY7jyoTs&feature=related

    Which one if false??
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Whether they call themselves Baptist or not, Charismatics are completely unwelcome in my church. Three times in my ministry I've had trouble with these people. Once they stole members. Another group tried to steal sheep and failed when God helped me confront the threat. The third time they baptized a family of our believers in their bathtub, got the wife to speak in tongues and then wondered why I was upset. That family also left our church.

    There are so many things wrong with the Charismatic movement it's hard to know where to start. Try unbiblical tongues (tongues are just ordinary languages in the NT), unbiblical "healing," "manifest sons of God" theology, "word of faith" heresy, "health and wealth" false Gospel, ad infinitum ad nauseum.

    The Charismatics have caused chaos on other mission fields of the world as well as in Japan. Read the articles by Loren Davis about the chaos Charismatics have caused in Africa: http://www.lorendavis.com/articles.html. I don't know Loren Davis and am not endorsing his ministry here, but his accounts are shocking and very sad.
     
    #27 John of Japan, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2011
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rather my examples would be Dr. john Owen, and if ever there was a man who was by nature an intellectual and a calm and controlled man but he also describes this -- "unspeakable rapture of the mind" , gladness, exultations-- something beyond description.

    Or let me quote you his contemporary, Dr. Thomas Goodwin, another bright shining star in this spiritual firmament, a man like Owen. Owen taught at Oxford. Goodwin taught at both Oxford & Cambridge. he writes

    " there is a light that cometh & overpowereth a man's soul and assureth him that God is his and he is God's, and that God loveth him everlasting... it is a light beyond the light of ordinary faith. "

    Needless to say.... these men did not run around like drunken idiots.
     
    #28 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2011
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Out of curiosity John, are Calvinist welcome? Lastly, who's church is it?
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    owen or goodwin were not speaking about this that we see posted here.
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sure, as long as they don't cause trouble. :smilewinkgrin: One of my greatest supporters and friends is a Calvinist I've known and loved for almost 40 years.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But they both believed in the power of the Holy Spirit....beyond the boundaries you impose.
     
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have John Owen's book on the Holy Spirit, I have books by Charismatics on the Holy Spirit, and I've known and dealt directly with Charismatics. I guarantee you that Owens and Charismatics could not be further apart on the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But yet they have all had experiences with the HS above & beyond their regeneration experiences.... would they have been considered Charismatics today? Would D. L Moody---look up his testimony, would Wesley--look up his, would Whitefield OK I will give you one Jonathan Edwards & If you cant find it, rest assured that I will make the effort. Again I caution you, no scripture cautions not to Quench the HS.
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do believe in the fullness of the Holy Spirit for the work of God in the same tradition as Moody and R. A. Torrey. One of the most helpful books for my ministry I ever read was The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does by Torrey. Again, Torrey's pamphlet, Why God Used D. L. Moody, is excellent.

    My grandfather's books on the Holy Spirit are in the same vein, in particular The Power of Pentecost or the Fullness of the Spirit. In fact, though Granddad was a Baptist he used to invite the Pentecostals to participate in his city-wide campaigns back in the '40's and '50s with the caveat that they would not talk about tongues and he would not preach about Baptism. This was before the Charismatic mess started in the '60's.

    Where you are mistaken is that you're mixing up the original Pentecostal tradition which started at the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, and the modern Charismatic movement, which didn't begin until the early '60s. Harold Bredesen coined the term in 1962.

    How the Charismatic Movement began by penetrating main line churches and spreading tongues doctrine (splitting many churches) is well documented by Richard Quebedeux in The New Charismatics. The old line Pentecostals don't believe in many things the Charismatics think are important: ecumenicalism (Pentecostals are separatists), "word of faith," "health and wealth," etc.

    Furthermore, the heretical Charismatic doctrine of the "manifest sons of God" got the proto-Charismatics kicked out of the Church of God back in the '40s, I believe. (Don't have the details at hand right now.)

    For perspective for you, I highly recommend Charismatic Chaos, by Calvinist John MacArthur. Or if you want a book by an old line Pentecostal, try Charismatism: Awakening or Apostasy? by O. Talmadge Spence.
     
    #35 John of Japan, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2011
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    We used to have a yearly meeting in both England and Canada called the Keswick Camp. It was a place where we especially waited upon God the Holy Spirit to fill us and change us to meet His demands on us.

    These were many different churches, but there was no tongues, etc., common to charismatics.

    What I am saying is that seeking spiritual blessings was not absent from the basic denominations. We didn't leave everything to the charismatics.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Very true, Brother Jim. The Keswick Movement was entirely separate from the Pentecostals and Charismatics, yet believed in an important experience of the Holy Spirit past salvation.
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240

    Would say there there are genuine Charasmatics, in sense hold to real Gospel and Real jesus, add 'distinctives" in their theology, BUT definitly cultic/heritical groups like Word of faith/prosperity. Kingdom Now etc!

    Old line pentaclostals in say assemblies of God would severly disagree witht those "frindge/heretical" groups epousing in Charasmatic ranks!
     
    #38 JesusFan, Jul 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2011
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    "good" ones are those like in traditional pentacostal circles, like Assemblies of God, "bad" ones aare indeed those teaching/adhering to heretical nonseanse as in WOF, Kingdom Now. manifest sons of God, health and wealth, positive confession etc

    Check statements of beliefs of say assemblies of God, do disagree with them on Sotierology as they are classicical Arms, and in second act of grace, but pretty much Evangelical, with their distinctives...
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Great point!
     
Loading...